To have got angry with sister over the state of her house?

[ThreePac]

Last year my sister came over to my house and suddenly burst into tears saying she was sick of her house being a shithole. She’s never been houseproud but to be honest her house has got gradually worse over the years, nothing gets redecorated , stained carpets don’t get cleaned, walls don’t get washed or repainted, broken stuff doesn’t get replaced … but I’ve never said anything as she seemed happy living like that and it wasn’t my place to question it. She was so upset and kept going on about how she loved my house but can’t seem to recreate it herself. So, I offered to help her do it up. We spent months repainting, buying replacement doors to replace the ones with holes in etc!! We recarpeted (money was never the issue) and I went around shops with her picking on out rugs, cushions, curtains, vases, mirrors etc … you name it. We completely redid her house and it took months of hard work. It looked beautiful when we’d finished and she loved it, I was so happy for her. She was posting photos on social media and everything.

I’ve not been to her house since last September.

She invited me over today. Walking into the kitchen one of the cupboard doors was hanging off and there was food splattered all over the walls and used tea bags just splattered onto the work tops. The house stunk of poo and wee from the dog … she said “look at this, you’ll love it” and took me to the living room. She’d pulled all her furniture out and given the entire room to the dog. There was stains all over the carpet and just a dog bed in the middle of the room. She’d put all her living room furniture into the dining room squashing the dining table up against the wall. I said “what the fuck have you done?” And she replied “given the dog his own room so that I dont get the rest of the house messy!” The fucking living room???!! I spent weeks decorating that for her. I’m livid. I ended up telling her “THIS is why your house never looks nice! You don’t look after stuff and make stupid decisions!” She got defensive and said it was her house and she could live however she wants. I replied “yes, but don’t ask me to help you with it ever again”.

Obviously we’re now not talking. Yes it’s her house but why let me spend months trying to make it look nice for her if she prefers it being a shithole???

Just read about throwing the food and pizza onto the ceiling, she cannot have a normal iq and must have some disabilities or is on drugs and numbed to it all. Feel sorry for the kids. Why would anyone think it is ok to throw food at each other. Unless she wants some help then nothing more you can do as you tried and the kids seem to be running wild and she thinks it is all great fun. Sad really that she thinks things like that are funny and she does not sound mature enough to own a dog or even have children.

I suspect OP is well aware that her sister has mental health issues, but that doesn't mean that OP is not allowed to be angry about what her sister has done.

I think that OP has been trained to let her sister 'get on with her life' by her family.

Unfortunately there is nothing OP can do except let her sister continue to live with her children how they are. If they chose to live in a shithole then so be it. The fact the that the 21 year old keeps his room clean and tidy shows that they know how to be clean and tidy. The house will only get worse once the 21 year old will leave home.

And OP doesn't need to spend any more time and money on her sister and her house.

@HeyEwe

Why do people always suggest the person must be depressed, a few posts in it starts. She has a dog and sounds like she doesn't clean much, add 3 kids into the mix of course it's going to be a sty. She sounds lazy not depressed. It's a shame you wasted your time, some people just can't be bothered to clean.

It’s 2022. You really should be better at noticing mental health concerns by now. How obtuse to reduce this to “she has a dog and doesn’t clean much”. Kitchen cupboard doors hanging off, holes in doors and a dog being left to shit in the living is not “doesn’t clean much”. She needed therapy not new decorative cushions.

Throwing pizza at the ceiling??

Do you think your sister might have a drinking/substance abuse problem? Or maybe she just doesn't mind the filth/destruction? I'm not making light of the situation at all but some people just aren't bothered however you did say it was upsetting her and if it's also contributed to the break-down of her marriage...well it boggles the mind. I wonder if she's depressed? But if she's always been this way, maybe it's more trained behaviour than anything else...?

Is there anyone in the entire world who could possibly be even just a tiny teeny bit responsible for their own circumstances. Anyone at all? Or is everyone depressed or have a MH issue. One thing is for sure, we know that MN is full of healthcare professionals that can give an armchair diagnosis on the back of a 10-line post.

Why would a cupboard door be hanging off and why are teabags just chucked on the side?

I can understand the teabags if she's exhausted and busy and distracted and just not got round to it - but a cupboard door hanging off in less than 6 months since you did the entire house out? How on earth does that happen?

Some people are lazy. Some people will always look for someone to solve their problems. It really annoys me that these days everyone has to have an "illness" they can't just be gross

You can be like this and NOT have a MH problem, not that you can diagnose people from a MN thread.

I feel sorry for her kids, it’s tough being the one with a filthy house. I don’t blame op for being upset (but I think you should have seen this coming)

Mental health issue. I think she needs to talk. To someone.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

Why would a cupboard door be hanging off and why are teabags just chucked on the side?

I can understand the teabags if she's exhausted and busy and distracted and just not got round to it - but a cupboard door hanging off in less than 6 months since you did the entire house out? How on earth does that happen?

I have cupboard doors hanging off, actually two are entirely off, in the kitchen and have no idea how it happened. I certainly live in a terrible mess. It has taken me a long time to decide that I do need help with hoarding, decluttering and cleaning (which is worse since my husband died), and have put out feelers to professional organisations who have experience of this. I don't want someone I know helping me.

There are no pets here except mice, I've caught about 31 in the last month in a humane trap and released them to the wild but I saw another one last night. I did have cats who were very well looked after and lived to be elderly except for one who was run over and I will not have any more pets. Some of their toys and bowls are still piled in a corner though I gave most to a neighbour.

People don't realise how difficult a problem this can be for some of us unless they have first hand experience.

My husband was something of a hoarder too but not as bad as me and a bit more organised but his health went towards the end. I still have to get rid of a lot of his clothes and shoes. Our son is more of a collector than a hoarder but there's no room for much else in his small house.

Your sister clearly has some psychological issues about tidiness, cleanliness, control, boundaries etc.

What was home-life like for her / you as children? Were your mum or dad particular about tidiness or mess?

This sounds like a cry for help about something else going on in her life but she is also perhaps ashamed or even in denial once you are in her house. Maybe try inviting her out for coffee and talk to her so you are neither in her house or yours?

I have adhd and asd and I have at times over the years struggled to keep the house clean and tidy. I’ve always been a messy disorganised person and I hate it. My house was bad when my kids were younger, but I had a lot of problems, plus my ex was a lazy shit and I was running a house, coping with 4 kids, coping with my own mental health and coping with 2 other children with adhd and asd oh and I was working too. I never used to wash up for days or hoover for weeks, I used to pile my washing up on the floor because the sides were so full. I was so tired and depressed.
I’m still messy but my house is much better, my room is terrible but my kitchen is cleaned every day and I tidy through and hoover once a week. It’s all I can cope with at the moment.

Op maybe your sister has problems that can’t be fixed by redecorating her house, but you can’t help someone that doesn’t want to be helped at the end of the day. I have a friend who is a massive hoarder, I am horrified even by my standards, I even helped her once or twice by sorting her stuff out etc, went back to see her and the problems is much worse. I won’t help her now but I still see her as I value my friendship with her. I just don’t judge her because she’s got a lot of mental and physical health issues.

@ThreePac you sound amazing to be able to help her so much. I would pay you to help me like that and keep it clean too.

You did help her massively you wee a kind sister I'm sure she appreciates it too. I bet the 21 year old is massively grateful to you also.

I doubt the teens want to live like this. Are they amenable to your advice? Even just a basic hygiene routine in the kitchen. Does your dsis own the house? It seems as if she aspires to your standard but finds it beyond her capabilities so gives up.

@Bromse I hope you’re able to access the help that you need. It sounds very tough for you.
There are kinder corners of MN if you’d like to start a support thread of your own.

@sst1234

Is there anyone in the entire world who could possibly be even just a tiny teeny bit responsible for their own circumstances. Anyone at all? Or is everyone depressed or have a MH issue. One thing is for sure, we know that MN is full of healthcare professionals that can give an armchair diagnosis on the back of a 10-line post.

Relative to population, MN has a higher number of people who are ND, have MH issues, care for people with MH issues, are parents to dc with SN. Those conditions can be socially isolating and Internet forums are a valuable outlet.

There is a lot of first hand experience on here.

Sadly quite a few of the people who post claiming to be professionals are lacking in empathy and compassion.

Sounds like a neighbour in my street
He has mental health problems is also a crack head and and absolutely disgusting piece of shit
He had a dog that was shitting & pissing in his house because he didn’t walk it
When I said what do you expect - he looked at me blank like it never occurred to him to walk the dog
His ex and mother cleaned the house one weekend from top to bottom as his ex refused to let her son stay in the house in the state that it was in
Where was he - sat on the wall smoking
& watching two women clean and beat filthy
carpets .
Some people are just filthy disgusting pieces of lazy shit with mental health problems

The dog needs to go. Is it a pit bull or some dog like that?

Did she say who shot the bb gun in the house and putting holes in the walls?

There's 4 people in the house capable of cleaning so no reason for it to be a tip.

Could she have undiagnosed ADHD?

Suggesting that someone may have MH issues/ADHD/substance misuse/DA/anything else is not absolving them of responsibility. Rather it is focussing their responsibility in a different place.

Ask for help, see the GP, do the therapy, seek support, take the medication, or whatever it may be. Then, in time, they will be better able to tidy up and keep order.

But unless the person knows they have a problem, they’re not going to be able to access the help they need. Instead they are left thinking I must try harder/I’m so lazy/I can’t cope. It feels overwhelming. So maybe they stop trying, assume they just have to live with it, and then get defensive if anyone criticises - or even offers help.

If you have been there, even to some extent, you are more likely to have compassion towards this woman. Although having said, they are none so judgmental as those who were able to fix themselves and assume that everyone else can too.

Do you keep on touch with the kids separately? I'd be doing what I can to help them move out ASAP- especially the eldest. Given his room is immaculate what state must his head be in if he is forced to live like this? No wonder he is always working...

But unless the person knows they have a problem, they’re not going to be able to access the help they need. Instead they are left thinking I must try harder/I’m so lazy/I can’t cope. It feels overwhelming. So maybe they stop trying, assume they just have to live with it, and then get defensive if anyone criticises - or even offers help

This x 1000

I didn’t know I had adhd until last year when Dd told me to look at a list of symptoms. I said I had all of them and I have always had them from childhood. They were a list of symptoms for adhd.

All my life I looked at other people and wanted to know how they did stuff like at school how they managed to sit in class listening to the teacher, how did they manage to do all their homework in a couple of hours (it took me 3 hours per subject and there were 3 subjects per night) and later how did people have a tidy house, hold down a job, cook food everyday. No matter how hard I tried things always fell short. I gave up on f/t work decades ago. I had 3 nervous breakdowns.
At home I cleaned the bathroom until it was the cleanest bathroom ever but then I didn’t go shopping, so no meals cooked (not that I can cook.) and the rest of the house was a tip.
If I went shopping then the bathroom wouldn’t be cleaned.
It wasn’t because I was lazy because the effort and time I put in was many times more than other people but what I achieved was very little.

Come on, a kitchen door hanging off and bullet holes in a door? That's not lazy or unclean, that's destructive behaviour.

Really the rspca may be more interested in removing the dog now when someone is shooting a gun indoors. A bb gun can still kill an animal, so it shouldn't be happening. Maybe another animal rescue place in the area could assist with pushing that forward too.

Maybe she has issues, maybe she's just lazy and doesn't actually give a shit. No one here knows, and you cannot force someone to get help if they don't want it. But the dog needs removed, she's not caring for it correctly. She can be disgusting and destructive if she wants, but not with an animals life in the balance. Its only a matter of time before they accidentally shoot the dog.

I don't blame you, how frustrating!
It's all too easy to say she must have MH issues, but OP knows her sister & no one else in this thread does. You can't blame everything on MH Issues, sometimes it's just the way people are.

Given the age of the younger dc it is unlikely to have gone unnoticed at school/college. The smell will be embedded in their clothing for example. If you are genuinely concerned for the dc you could contact the school's designated Safeguarding Officer. It might be a piece of a bigger picture.

This is hard as it's family but it sounds unhygienic and she sounds like she has mental health issues.

I would have been making Childrens Services/RSPCA referrals a long while ago, it's sad if those children grew up in a home that was unclean and unhygienic. I don't know the full scope of course but it's sounds very bad from what you've described