To have got angry with sister over the state of her house?

[ThreePac]

Last year my sister came over to my house and suddenly burst into tears saying she was sick of her house being a shithole. She’s never been houseproud but to be honest her house has got gradually worse over the years, nothing gets redecorated , stained carpets don’t get cleaned, walls don’t get washed or repainted, broken stuff doesn’t get replaced … but I’ve never said anything as she seemed happy living like that and it wasn’t my place to question it. She was so upset and kept going on about how she loved my house but can’t seem to recreate it herself. So, I offered to help her do it up. We spent months repainting, buying replacement doors to replace the ones with holes in etc!! We recarpeted (money was never the issue) and I went around shops with her picking on out rugs, cushions, curtains, vases, mirrors etc … you name it. We completely redid her house and it took months of hard work. It looked beautiful when we’d finished and she loved it, I was so happy for her. She was posting photos on social media and everything.

I’ve not been to her house since last September.

She invited me over today. Walking into the kitchen one of the cupboard doors was hanging off and there was food splattered all over the walls and used tea bags just splattered onto the work tops. The house stunk of poo and wee from the dog … she said “look at this, you’ll love it” and took me to the living room. She’d pulled all her furniture out and given the entire room to the dog. There was stains all over the carpet and just a dog bed in the middle of the room. She’d put all her living room furniture into the dining room squashing the dining table up against the wall. I said “what the fuck have you done?” And she replied “given the dog his own room so that I dont get the rest of the house messy!” The fucking living room???!! I spent weeks decorating that for her. I’m livid. I ended up telling her “THIS is why your house never looks nice! You don’t look after stuff and make stupid decisions!” She got defensive and said it was her house and she could live however she wants. I replied “yes, but don’t ask me to help you with it ever again”.

Obviously we’re now not talking. Yes it’s her house but why let me spend months trying to make it look nice for her if she prefers it being a shithole???

She laughs and thinks it’s funny!

I have a friend like this, she minimises absolutely everything - up to and including abuse she’s suffered at the hands of her parents and a string of partners - as it seems to be her way of coping. Underneath she knows things are very wrong but outwardly she’ll laugh everything off.

I don’t think she started to understand the consequences until she lost access to her children, but by then it was too late. I would absolutely be talking to social services, for her and for the children. It must be awful living like that.

I have a SIL and two nephews who lived like this to some degree-family and neighbors would 'help' them out after late BIL passed away almost 20 years ago unexpectedly. One example-out other BIL and his firm built a very large deck in her backyard which she only paid for price of materials and less than six months later there was a large hole in the center of the deck. One nephew had a penchant for arson. Another example a window sill was missing part of its ledge in the living room. She had serving dishes with chunks of the handles missing-she explained it all as 'boys being boys!' My MIL cleaned and organized her garage spending hours cleaning, organizing it twice-a month or two later it was a bomb site. She refused to discipline her kids and impose punishment such as having the boys pay towards damage their carelessness and roughhousing caused. We were just astonished as her late husband wasn't allowed to behave that way so we knew it was SIL. The sad part was she couldn't really afford the repairs needed to their home but refused to take measures to prevent it.

What don't you understand? It's an emotional problem, just like hoarders who hate how they're living but continue bringing more home.

There's no easy answer, OP. You've tried to help her, but she doesn't want the help. She has to want to change, and until she does, it's all wasted effort. If she comes crying again, I wouldn't put too much of my energy into making the house nice again, and in the meantime I'd avoid her home as much as possible.

If you want to maintain a relationship with her, you'll have to try to put this frustration behind you and ignore that aspect of her personality as much as you can.

I think your sister needs help and sympathy, not judgement.

@lborgia

OMG the lack of insight and empathy is revolting.

I understand the OP feeling angry after all the work she put in, but seriously, did she really not have a clue that there were bigger issues here?

No one is JUST lazy. No one. How can you have known your own sister all these years, and not realise she has some kind of issues.

If she wasn't always liked this, something was a trigger, if she had always been this way, why had no one tried to get her help? Why would you think buying fucking vases would fix everything?

Completely bloody clueless.

Bollocks, some people are JUST lazy. no psychological reason behind it. I know plenty of lazyarses and they'll happily admit it themselves.

Nothing wrong with being a lazy git as long as that doesn't negatively impact others.

Forget the dog for a minute and look at the kids (I know they are not babies) who appear to have had no discipline in their lives and lived in filth and the rest of it, so it must seem normal for them too.They don't seem to mind the chaos and the dirty smelly dog in their living room either.

I doubt the mother is the only one with issues, the kids may turn out the same. I wonder if their father has any input into their lives at their mother's house? Lots going on.

I admire you OP. Even in very dark and distressing times we do try to help those we love, but in this case I would throw my hands up and let them get on with it.

@ThreePac
Dogshit and urine is down to her being lazy or clueless in house training her dog.
Yes, dogs can have the odd accident, but it needs cleaning up immediately!
This sounds like a completely untrained dog.
The house must reek.

No wonder you are pissed off.

As mentioned I think your sister has some serious problems. Do you have any contact with your nephew and niece ? Have you ever been concerned about their care ? Giving a room over to a dog to crap in is not within a normative range of behaviour with 3 children at home , even if one is an adult, and one 17. There is a 15 year old girl there . I would be worried for her - I would try and have a talk with your niece and make sure she is ok, sod the house !

OP, yes it her house but it doesn’t mean you can’t be disappointed or frustrated at all your work going down hill
As others have said, this is ab normal and sounds like someone who can’t cope. ( a lazy person wouldn’t cry about it, surely?)
The only thing you can do is inform social services re: teens /dirty home/dog shit etc
But you probably won’t be thanked for it.
And the dog … well that’s just adding to the chaos

My own family are like this : think it’s normal when it’s gotten completely out of control.

What do you think OP, do you think she’s depressed? Or just naturally slovenly?

House proud MNers may assume a dirty house can only indicate mental illness, but some people genuinely just messy and dirty by nature.

Sounds like there’s more to this story. Does she have autism/executive dysfunction or a mental illness?

A “Strong” dog that cannot be walked because it pulls to much is wanton cruelty.
RSPCA have taken Staffies and Pits from houses like you described, encrusted with excrement and urine, and the dogs were never taken out.
It’s awful people like this keep animals ..
Never mind Children 😟

Does she have behaviours associated with ADHD?

www.ameridisability.com/post/women-and-add-the-hidden-disability-what-you-need-to-know-about-attention-deficit-disorder/

Why do people get a dog that has the potential to be so unsuitable. If you don’t want to walk it or can’t don’t have it. The dogs behaviour is worrying and yuck is all I can say. Poor animal. Please get the dog out of there

Guessing she’s mentally ill, there’s no other logical explanation for any of this. Making the dog its own room as if that’s totally normal is something my SIL would do during a manic episode, she has bipolar. It often goes undiagnosed for many years, people just think they’re eccentric or a bit wacky. You can’t force her to get help but she clearly needs it.

She’s always been like this, it’s why her husband left her
Nice. So she got what she deserved?

Do you even LIKE your sister?
This is not normal behaviour but, if everyone has just written her off as just 'being like that', I can see why it's continued.

@lborgia

OMG the lack of insight and empathy is revolting.

I understand the OP feeling angry after all the work she put in, but seriously, did she really not have a clue that there were bigger issues here?

No one is JUST lazy. No one. How can you have known your own sister all these years, and not realise she has some kind of issues.

If she wasn't always liked this, something was a trigger, if she had always been this way, why had no one tried to get her help? Why would you think buying fucking vases would fix everything?

Completely bloody clueless.

Of course no one thinks they’re lazy. Not when you have people making excuses for laziness. It’s not empathy to constantly make excuses for people, it’s cruel and patronising.

I think the ship has sailed regarding the teenagers. Social services have a high bar for removing teens, no matter how messy a house it won't cut it. It's not like with babies where they are crawling around and putting everything in their mouths. Even then social services don't have much sway even with total squalor unless there is other abuse or neglect.
The dog on the other hand, cannot clean the house itself can it? Doesn't escape to school or college. Doesn't even get walked. And what happens to dogs like that? They usually end up hurting somebody. That's what happens to dogs who are neglected. At that point it will be put down. Much better for it to be given up or taken now.

If you’d asked AIBU to be upset/disappointed/concerned about my sister’s house, I’d have said YANBU after you put in all that effort for nothing.

But anger, YABU.

Either there is something wrong (depression or ADHD spring to mind - NB I am not a doctor), in which case she needs compassion and support - when she is ready to accept it.

Or there is nothing wrong - and she is exercising her right to live as she chooses. And you can exercise your right never to clean up her house again.

@CJsGoldfish

She’s always been like this, it’s why her husband left her Nice. So she got what she deserved?

Do you even LIKE your sister?
This is not normal behaviour but, if everyone has just written her off as just 'being like that', I can see why it's continued.

Given the effort that OP put in, I'd say that she must like her sister to a degree. But I do wonder why no-one worried about these kids when they were younger.

You can't fix her op.My family were similar and I spent wasted time trying to do just that. Infuriating and depressing if you let it get to you.

But anger, YABU.

Anger is totally understandable. The op is absolutely allowed to vent here.

Just because she's laughs and appears to think it's funny, doesn't mean there isn't something underlying it. The"funny" might be a coping mechanism, or something is going on with the wiring in her brain.

Pp who said this was bollocks, well despite your clear and scientific response, I would still argue that no one is "just" anything.

You rarely see any other animal live in its own mess, and generally it is human nature to keep some sort of order..at least in the food and sleeping areas.

Anyone who is living in squalor has a glitch somewhere.

As for those who proudly agree they're lazy - they've probably assumed that is what it is.

Lots of us tell ourselves we're lazy, stupid etc. Partly because we don't understand why we do things, partly because charming relatives tell us so.

The 4 or 5 friends I know who really struggle with varying degrees of mess/squalor, have all told me they are just lazy at some point or another.

They have also, at other times, told me about their adhd, anxiety, abuse, etc etc. Incapable of creating boundaries for kids because they had such a miserable childhood they can't bear to tell them off. Staring at something that needs doing, but literally fell unable to start the project. Anxious at the very thought of throwing things away.

None of these are normal situations. None of them have ever made a link in their own minds.

Just got to their 50s still berating themselves for being stupid, thick, lazy, bad...

Even when you have had the links explained to you, it doesn't mean you can stop/ keep to a plan.

I'm probably wasting my breath. So much easier to judge people than try to understand.

I'm concerned that her children think the way they are living is normal. Was the husband their father? If so how selfish he left without then

Also concerned for your sister and the dog.

Agree there must be an underlying cause. I would report to the RSPCA & SS though appreciate no previous assistance was given