DH has suggested division of childcare/housework unfair...

[ooooopsididit]

Just that really!

DH works full time, from home until recently, but is now back in the office two days per week.

I am a SAHM of two nursery age children.

Both children are at nursery four half days and one full day per week.

DH and I split the morning get up and ready routine, and bedtime routines between us.

The housework is also split about 50/50, although I do more cooking and all laundry.

I also do all lunchtime pickups of DC.

For the complete picture I do have a little cleaning job of about four hours a week, but I could give that up if I wanted the extra time back.

I thought this was fine but DH his just said he thinks it's a bit unfair... I suspect he may be right.

AIBU to expect this to be fine
YABU to split this way as he works full time

I am speaking through experience of having been a SAHM for almost two decades and if there’s one thing a I’ve learned (often the difficult way), is that if you don’t take care of yourself, nobody else will.

If you are guilt-tripped into feeling that your every free minute should be doing something housework-related, then I can tell you for nothing that this is a very insidious rabbit hole you will be heading down. And my husband wasn’t even telling me to do all the housework - it’s a rabbit hole you can send yourself down if you’re not careful.

When you are at home as default, seven days a week with kids, there will be a lot more mess created than if you kids are in a childcare setting all day. Just picking up after them and feeding them can be enough, frankly. That’s the first point. But more than this, if you become too housework-obsessed it’s a very slippery-slope that is quite dangerous, frankly. The point being, that there will ALWAYS be something else to do. It’s like being a hamster in a wheel. You are in the house all day so noticing it more and if you start to associate you ‘self worth’ with a litany of housework and cleaning tasks you have created in your head, this can spell real trouble for you mental health wise. You can become withdrawn, anxious, even reclusive because you feel bad about going out at all or doing anything for yourself. You find yourself saying, “Oh I just need to sort those sock drawers out” or whatever.

I am someone who loves my home and I can’t function in mess. For many years, I felt guilty doing anything that was not for the kids, or my husband, or the house. I had to drag myself out of that mentality and it took a few years. Even when my husband used to tell me to go off and do x,y,z and take some time for myself, I somehow couldn’t bring myself to. I used to feel guilt my about having cleaners because I felt like it should be ‘my job.’

Anyway, what I can tell you now is bollocks to that! My cleaners are self-employed and come in to do given tasks at an agreed rate. Just like gardeners or anyone else providing a service. I never expect them to pick up anything off the floor or do any tidying. I prefer not having other people deal with our laundry or beds either (but that’s just me). Anyway, it’s work and like any other work it is paid work. It means I can focus on other things which, believe it or not, are still predominantly to do with the kids, the house and DH anyway.

So I think the OP has the right attitude, that’s all I’m saying. Don’t go down the rabbit hole OP!

You seem a bit over invested in this saraya7!

I don’t like women telling other women to feel guilty, that’s all. Women are they’re own worst enemies sometimes and I see that a lot on MN.

I think it's absolutely fine to do little or no housework if your partner is happy with that set up and with the division of responsibilities. There is no virtue in doing more than necessary just for the sake of it. If you have tons of free time and everyone else in the family is happy with that, then good for you. Enjoy it. It is nobody else's business.

Personally, I wouldn't regard that as fair if I was the WOHP and I wouldn't be prepared to take on the WOHP role unless the SAHP was willing to take on the vast majority of the domestic workload. If they didn't want to do that, then we would obviously revert to the default position of both partners WOH and sharing the domestic stuff equally.

In the OP's scenario, her DH wasn't happy with the split so something needed to change. Happily, it seems like that is sorted now to their mutual satisfaction.

@saraya7 I agree. In fact I could have typed your post at 13.11 myself.

I'm a SAHM I do all the get ups and get me and the kids ready ( 1 at school the other 16 months) do all the school drop offs and pick-up -have no child free time but I do all the laundry, cleaning and tidying as much as I can with a baby, most but not all of the cooking- I do baby bedtime DH does DD(6) bedtime which is pretty easy he just puts her in bed and plays a story thru her Alexa! He helps more a weekend though I do all the nappy changes, feeding and bathing the baby still - if we bath the kids together we both do it mainly!

@saraya7 thank you, this really resonates with me

DH doing slightly more than he wants, does not equate with me doing absolutely nothing, which is sadly against the narrative of those implying that.

And at no point have I said DH is seriously unhappy or has one foot out the door because of the split. He gave me his opinion, it was taken onboard, we found a solution that suits us both and have now moved on.

I posted because I was interested in finding out how others did it, in similar positions to myself. So thank you to the posters who gave constructive feedback, even if it was to tell me I was BU, in a helpful and useful way.

For those who think my husband does everything, my children are in nursery 100 hours a week, I don't want to get a job, and lay around eating chocolates all week, I have neither will nor want to convince you otherwise. Your opinions are your own, so enjoy!

@BurntO

The childcare split sounds fine IMO, you both made babies and 50/50 for wake ups and bed time sound good, it’s important for kids to have both of their parents doing this and for all of you to have that time together regardless of work commitments.

I think you should be taking over more of the chores 100%. 50/50 isn’t fair.

I agree with this.

@ooooopsididit

Thank you *@saraya7*

I think this thread has gotten quite far from where it started.

DH is in no way doing the majority of the housework. He's just doing fractionally more than he wants as he's working full time.

Also DH Works from home a large majority of the time, so him helping with dc at breakfast or bath time on the days he's here is hardly a major request, and is something he wants to do.

For those still saying I have four or five days a week to myself. I have one and a half days. I don't think I can repeat that many more times.

In response to the suggestions I "just get a job" I've outlined above the reasons that's difficult. My husband also earns probably at least 5x what I do. And is in no way keen to go part time. He's on an upward trajectory, assisted by me being here.

Me getting a job is fine on paper but logistically and financially makes no sense. Also employers aren't that keen on people who can only work limited hours and have been out of the workplace for quite a while. Sadly that's the way it is.

I've showed my husband this thread and he is shocked by the martyrdom shown by some posters.

The upshot of his comment yesterday is that we'll be getting a cleaner. I'm here for a good time, not a long time and I plan To spend my time doing enjoyable things with my family and by myself, rather than splitting hairs over who's done the bins and emptied the dishwasher

Yay on getting a cleaner - perfect solution:)

I'd be surprised if the dh really was doing 50% tbh. The OP is presumably doing all the childcare during school holidays, if she's doing all the laundry (and I think she said cooking) then they are sharing the rest, I'd guess she is probably doing more than her dh, whatever his perception.
I do agree that cleaning isn't beneath anyone and that it's part of having self respect to clear up after yourself and maintain a clean home. But I don't think women sah should be cleaning up after the other adult who lives there. Working doesn't exempt a person from doing their share in the maintenance of their own homes. The sahp is there for the children's well-being primarily. That's what the financial support is for - so that the kids have a parent available when needed.

From memory of those days, half days in nursery do not equal half a day without the children. I was often working from home at that stage and by the time drop offs and pickups and getting ready to go etc was factored in it was about half the slot of the nursery half day.

Forget hours of doing stuff and workout how much time each of you have without doing stuff. Track it for a week or two if unsure and include all the ad hoc wife work type activities which don't happen every day but overall eat up a chunk of time every week.

If both of you have broadly similar genuine free time (defined as "could I not be here") , both of you get the chance to go out sometimes and each get a lie in at the weekend then probably the overall balance isn't far off.

I'd be surprised if the dh really was doing 50% tbh

Despite the OP stating exactly that you know better?

I think sometimes women underestimate what they do or don't consider all the little bits and pieces they do which aren't clearly defined jobs.

@DillonPanthersTexas

I'd be surprised if the dh really was doing 50% tbh

Despite the OP stating exactly that you know better?

Pretty much every study of housework shows men over reporting their actuals and women under reporting, even where both are utterly convinced the split is 50/50.

Its social conditioning, in much the way that women are perceived to be talking more than they actually are and men perceived as talking less than they are.

@Aderyn21

I'd be surprised if the dh really was doing 50% tbh. The OP is presumably doing all the childcare during school holidays, if she's doing all the laundry (and I think she said cooking) then they are sharing the rest, I'd guess she is probably doing more than her dh, whatever his perception. I do agree that cleaning isn't beneath anyone and that it's part of having self respect to clear up after yourself and maintain a clean home. But I don't think women sah should be cleaning up after the other adult who lives there. Working doesn't exempt a person from doing their share in the maintenance of their own homes. The sahp is there for the children's well-being primarily. That's what the financial support is for - so that the kids have a parent available when needed.

That's for the couple to decide between them when deciding that one parent will SAH, surely? There isn't an accepted "standard" job description for SAHPs, it just depends what couples negotiate between them.

So for some families, the SAHP role will be seen as being exclusively about childcare, while for others, there will be an expectation that the SAHP will do most or all of the housework. Neither of those approaches is wrong, it's about what the couple considers to be fair. This might depend on the age, number and personalities of any dc, the size of the house, spare money for outsourcing, the nature of the WOHP's job, time spent in nursery or with other relatives etc.

Some WOHPs would not be happy to have a SAHP at home with the kids if they still had to do half of the household chores. That is a perfectly valid position, just as it would be equally valid for someone to say that they wouldn't agree to becoming a SAHP on that basis. The default position is always that both partners are equally responsible for earning, household tasks and childcare unless they can mutually agree an alternative division of responsibilities that suits each of them.

Aderyn21 & C8H10N4O2

Pretty infantilising position to take, even when someone states a position based on their personal experience, they are in actual fact mistaken and some random internet people know better.

Or it's just that people don't always see things objectively when they are living in the middle of a situation.
Which is why people start threads on MN and why posters question what is in an op.

@DillonPanthersTexas

Aderyn21 & C8H10N4O2

Pretty infantilising position to take, even when someone states a position based on their personal experience, they are in actual fact mistaken and some random internet people know better.

Not its what research has shown repeatedly. Don't take my word for it - go google for research in this space and the perception of women and men in meetings, classrooms and any other group situation.

The fact that you are not aware of this suggests you need to learn more about it.

I also think that while I could do more around the house, he lives here too and makes mess, eats food, wears clothes. Why shouldn't he do some of the housework.
You also spend the money he makes OP, he could say why don't you earn some of the money too.

And as for the comments about "his money"We're a family, and I have facilitated his career since we had children, to the detriment of my own.

And he's facilitating you being a sahm OP.
It's not tit for tat but sounds like you want him to be the main earner and do more at home too.
You don't think about it because it suits you, but certainly isn't fair. He's voiced it and you somehow still think it might not be fair on your part. Otherwise you'd have agreed with him.

So let me get this straight, you work four hours a week as a cleaner and yet going to employ a cleaner?

@SunnyNights I find that part bizarre as well. He apparently earns 5 x what OP could, so a high earner. Yet his wife is working as a cleaner. Even though they can easily afford a cleaner. And it hasn't occurred to her until now to hire a cleaner.

It's all a bit weird.

I'm sahm now and my husband has his own business all I ask is that he tidied any mess that hes made ,puts his laudnrybin the laundry bin and pays attention to the kids when he gets home . Sometimes he leaves everything to me and it drives me made as he makes such a mess ! I worked all through lock down and he was on furlough and he literally did nothing nothing at all I was coming home on my breaks (15 hour days) to tidy up ! I have to remind my self that he sis working hard and supporting our family with just his income but when hes being disrespectful by being messy it literally drives me up the wall . I think your very lucky doing half and half because I spend around 8 hours a day just tidying and cleaning x

have to remind my self that he sis working hard and supporting our family with just his income but when hes being disrespectful by being messy it literally drives me up the wall

You should also remind yourself that you work hard for the family too, the value of work is not only £££.

The fact that even when you were both the paid and the unpaid work he still did nothing and actually made more mess to add to your load doesn't speak well to him or his respect for you. The OP isn't lucky because her DH does half of a small subset of the chores - yours should be ashamed of himself for both opting out and also for using you as some kind of surrogate mother to clean up his teenage mess.

Funmum what you need love is a divorce from you lazy fucker husband! There is no excuse for an able bodied person to be doing nothing while their spouse does everything!

I'm here for a good time, not a long time and I plan To spend my time doing enjoyable things with my family and by myself, rather than splitting hairs over who's done the bins and emptied the dishwasher

Lucky you that you have someone willing to pay for your “good time”, then, I guess.