DH has suggested division of childcare/housework unfair...

[ooooopsididit]

Just that really!

DH works full time, from home until recently, but is now back in the office two days per week.

I am a SAHM of two nursery age children.

Both children are at nursery four half days and one full day per week.

DH and I split the morning get up and ready routine, and bedtime routines between us.

The housework is also split about 50/50, although I do more cooking and all laundry.

I also do all lunchtime pickups of DC.

For the complete picture I do have a little cleaning job of about four hours a week, but I could give that up if I wanted the extra time back.

I thought this was fine but DH his just said he thinks it's a bit unfair... I suspect he may be right.

AIBU to expect this to be fine
YABU to split this way as he works full time

The answer is you’re getting a cleaner? Wow. That’s it

Seriously, you read find some of the posts on here - written on a PARENTING FORUM by WOMEN - and you realise how ingrained misogyny is. Who needs men telling women what they should be doing, when mums are policing other mums.

The OP is a stay-at-home MUM. Got that? She did not leave her career to become a stay-at-home SKIVVY.

Yes, if you are physically at home more, then it is inevitable that you’ll end up doing more house-related stuff. Just because you’re physically there. I’m not arguing with that. But how dare people be telling her she should feel guilty - because she should be doing most if not everything housework-related Who are you to dictate to another woman what she should be doing in her own house - purely based on the fact she has taken the decision to be home with her own children?

Its quite horrible really, reading other women essentially saying, “Well I have to go to work - I can’t stay home either my kids - therefore you should be reduced to a skivvy and be constantly cleaning to justify why you’re not at work like me.” Urgggh.

Never judge until you have walked in someone else’s shoes.

I applaud any SAHM who has the self-awareness to recognise she needs a mental break. It’s not the actual individual tasks that wear you didn’t as a SAHM, it’s the fact that you never get a change of scene. You are never “your own person” like you are in a workplace. You are never “hands free.” You can always hear “mummy, mummy” ringing in your ears - even when the kids aren’t there. As I said, it takes a different type of resilience. All this will have been magnified by lockdown, for sure. So stop preaching about how much housework this mum should be doing. Put a sock in it with your 90% this or 80% that.

Well said saraya

@saraya7, you're coming to this thread from a totally different position to most of us, I think. If you've got a jetsetting husband earning enough for you to stay at home, have a cleaner and put 3 children through independent school, then this is not the average lifestyle of most families. It may be the type of circles YOU move in, but it's not for 90% of people on this thread, I think.

How nice it would be to be able to do all that, have the free time at home and not clean so much because you have a cleaner to do that. I doubt anyone here would be rushing to do the cleaning themselves if they could afford a cleaner instead. Years ago I remember some wealthy friends of my mum having a "mother's help" and she didn't work. Seems a totally alien concept to me, especiallythese days, but I guess some families are in that position.

To those people who use the word "martyr" when you're talking about families with one WOHP just trying to get by, with no spare money for a cleaner/nanny so the SAHP having no choice but to do everything themselves, shame on you. You're talking from a point of privilege.

He's not doing 50/50 if you most of the cooking and laundry.

[quote CurlyhairedAssassin]**@saraya7, you're coming to this thread from a totally different position to most of us, I think. If you've got a jetsetting husband earning enough for you to stay at home, have a cleaner and put 3 children through independent school, then this is not the average lifestyle of most families. It may be the type of circles YOU move in, but it's not for 90% of people on this thread, I think.

How nice it would be to be able to do all that, have the free time at home and not clean so much because you have a cleaner to do that. I doubt anyone here would be rushing to do the cleaning themselves if they could afford a cleaner instead. Years ago I remember some wealthy friends of my mum having a "mother's help" and she didn't work. Seems a totally alien concept to me, especiallythese days, but I guess some families are in that position.

To those people who use the word "martyr" when you're talking about families with one WOHP just trying to get by, with no spare money for a cleaner/nanny so the SAHP having no choice but to do everything themselves, shame on you. You're talking from a point of privilege.[/quote]
The fact the OP has more disposable income than a lot of people is not here nor there.
If she didn’t, then the answers was for her DH to step up instead. What happens here is that the Dh is buying someone to d HIS share if the work. Not the OP buying time from someone to do HER share.

In that one @saraya7 is totally right.

Out of curiosity, would anyone else be happy with that? To go out to work 40 hours a week while your husband worked 4 hours a week and the majority of the time had one child or no children with him, then when you return from work you take on 50% of all household chores?

I'm sure there is a term for that one here, cock something???

The way I think should work is that whilst the working parent is working the sahp does the housework and childcare and when the working parent is home then it is split 50/50.

[quote CurlyhairedAssassin]**@saraya7, you're coming to this thread from a totally different position to most of us, I think. If you've got a jetsetting husband earning enough for you to stay at home, have a cleaner and put 3 children through independent school, then this is not the average lifestyle of most families. It may be the type of circles YOU move in, but it's not for 90% of people on this thread, I think.

How nice it would be to be able to do all that, have the free time at home and not clean so much because you have a cleaner to do that. I doubt anyone here would be rushing to do the cleaning themselves if they could afford a cleaner instead. Years ago I remember some wealthy friends of my mum having a "mother's help" and she didn't work. Seems a totally alien concept to me, especiallythese days, but I guess some families are in that position.

To those people who use the word "martyr" when you're talking about families with one WOHP just trying to get by, with no spare money for a cleaner/nanny so the SAHP having no choice but to do everything themselves, shame on you. You're talking from a point of privilege.[/quote]
👏 👏👏👏👏

Sorry @saraya7 but you’re on another planet. A planet where a wife can float about having ‘me time’ while her husband works to pay the bills, without guilt because there’s money to outsource all those silly old dull jobs that life is too short for 🙄

Back in the real world, all adult members of a household should pull their weight equally - it’s basic respect for your spouse. If there isn’t money to have a housekeeper and the Op chooses not to go out to work then her job 9-5 is to care for the children and keep the house. Everything outside of those hours should be 50/50 of course but why should the OP get 1.5 days a week of me time while her husband works out of the home all that time?

Please stop telling us all to ‘put a sock in it’ because we happen to view life from another, less privileged, perch than you sit on.

@saraya7

Seriously, you read find some of the posts on here - written on a PARENTING FORUM by WOMEN - and you realise how ingrained misogyny is. Who needs men telling women what they should be doing, when mums are policing other mums.

The OP is a stay-at-home MUM. Got that? She did not leave her career to become a stay-at-home SKIVVY.

Yes, if you are physically at home more, then it is inevitable that you’ll end up doing more house-related stuff. Just because you’re physically there. I’m not arguing with that. But how dare people be telling her she should feel guilty - because she should be doing most if not everything housework-related Who are you to dictate to another woman what she should be doing in her own house - purely based on the fact she has taken the decision to be home with her own children?

Its quite horrible really, reading other women essentially saying, “Well I have to go to work - I can’t stay home either my kids - therefore you should be reduced to a skivvy and be constantly cleaning to justify why you’re not at work like me.” Urgggh.

Never judge until you have walked in someone else’s shoes.

I applaud any SAHM who has the self-awareness to recognise she needs a mental break. It’s not the actual individual tasks that wear you didn’t as a SAHM, it’s the fact that you never get a change of scene. You are never “your own person” like you are in a workplace. You are never “hands free.” You can always hear “mummy, mummy” ringing in your ears - even when the kids aren’t there. As I said, it takes a different type of resilience. All this will have been magnified by lockdown, for sure. So stop preaching about how much housework this mum should be doing. Put a sock in it with your 90% this or 80% that.

Yep

There's a really unpleasant undercurrent of snobbery and condescension amongst some posters - and the OP to an extent - about this housework that is apparently beneath her or them (but not her full time working husband mind you).. First of all, there is a purpose and dignity to keeping a home and the work involved therein and anyone who does it, paid or otherwise, should not feel lesser for doing so. And caring for and loving children absolutely includes the tasks of daily life like laundry, cooking nice nutritous meals, cleaning etc as much as it does singing and playing and bringing them to the park. I would consider all of that part of being a parent. I find words like skivvy very unpleasant. And what's wrong with cleaning skirting boards? It's no more pointless than the tasks involved in vast majority of bullshit office jobs out there (my own included!).

@theleafandnotthetree

There's a really unpleasant undercurrent of snobbery and condescension amongst some posters - and the OP to an extent - about this housework that is apparently beneath her or them (but not her full time working husband mind you).. First of all, there is a purpose and dignity to keeping a home and the work involved therein and anyone who does it, paid or otherwise, should not feel lesser for doing so. And caring for and loving children absolutely includes the tasks of daily life like laundry, cooking nice nutritous meals, cleaning etc as much as it does singing and playing and bringing them to the park. I would consider all of that part of being a parent. I find words like skivvy very unpleasant. And what's wrong with cleaning skirting boards? It's no more pointless than the tasks involved in vast majority of bullshit office jobs out there (my own included!).

I guess it depends on how you feel about them. I love my job and I love cooking and being with the kids but cleaning and tidying is grudge work to me. Also, pre kids I used to also do housework so I don't see why a man suddenly gets a maid if he works. A sahp is full on and 24/7. Housework is relentless and as soon as something is done, something else needs doing.

I was a sahm for about 10 years because it was what was best for the family and I wanted to raise my kids. But doing the drudge work instead of my paid work was a sacrifice.

I don't think cleaning my house is beneath me, or anyone else for that matter. But it isn't a priority for me.

Our house is very clean and tidy. I do my bit, DH does his. He'd like to do slightly less. We're in a position that we can afford a cleaner. Therefore the problem is solved as far as I can see.

I understand our lifestyle isn't the same as everyone else's. We are fortunate.

What is also a feature is that my worth as woman isn't based on how much I can do for everyone else. My self worth isn't based on how clean my house is.

I take time for myself because I need it. I know that's not a luxury everyone gets. Again, I'm fortunate and I acknowledge that.

I notice how many people are horrified by DH doing more than his share.

How many hundreds of threads are on this site from women who do far more than their fair share? And the advice is always the same, take time for yourself, stand your ground etc etc. So it's odd that when it's a woman doing less that it's so unpalatable

There's no way I would work to facilitate my partner living the lifestyle you do. Bone idleness and laziness are extremely unattractive traits in a partner

@Autumndays123 well it's a good job I'm married to DH and not you then 👍🏻

[quote ooooopsididit]@Autumndays123 well it's a good job I'm married to DH and not you then 👍🏻[/quote]
Not for much longer if you keep this up. Why are you here OP? You clearly think you deserve to sit around doing nothing whilst your husband works, so why bother making a thread?

Interesting that on this thread, being a SAHM is suddenly a ‘privilege’ because on most MN threads, SAHMs are basically told they have no economic or social agency; no hope for the future once the kids leave home ... they are doomed essentially . Oh, and the husband is bound to be having an affair.

But anyway ... Yes, I obviously agree having the choice to be a SAHM is a privilege not available to all families. But, in a sense, so what? Why should this mean its acceptable for other women to be castigating the OP, or declaring how much free time she is entitled to? . In the ‘real world,’ there are many manifestations of ‘privilege.’ Some people work in much harder conditions than others for a lot less money. Others are ‘privileged’ to be able to make different career choices, But what I have a problem with, is women telling other women that they ‘should’ be doing this or ‘should’ be doing that because of their own internalised misogyny and this weird notion that on MN, bring a SAHM means you have to justify yourself.

How would you like it if the OP asked you to justify what you do at work all day? Telling you you should work more efficiently? Telling you how many breaks you can take. Berating you if you go to the gym or whatever it is you may do because ‘not all women have that choice.’ It’s ludicrous.

Imagine a male forum where a man didn’t work because he didn’t need to (financially). Do you think other men would be piling in telling him to do all the housework?

What other people can or can’t do is irrelevant because the OP is living her life, with her children in the context of her marriage set-up.

@saraya7

Interesting that on this thread, being a SAHM is suddenly a ‘privilege’ because on most MN threads, SAHMs are basically told they have no economic or social agency; no hope for the future once the kids leave home ... they are doomed essentially . Oh, and the husband is bound to be having an affair.

But anyway ... Yes, I obviously agree having the choice to be a SAHM is a privilege not available to all families. But, in a sense, so what? Why should this mean its acceptable for other women to be castigating the OP, or declaring how much free time she is entitled to? . In the ‘real world,’ there are many manifestations of ‘privilege.’ Some people work in much harder conditions than others for a lot less money. Others are ‘privileged’ to be able to make different career choices, But what I have a problem with, is women telling other women that they ‘should’ be doing this or ‘should’ be doing that because of their own internalised misogyny and this weird notion that on MN, bring a SAHM means you have to justify yourself.

How would you like it if the OP asked you to justify what you do at work all day? Telling you you should work more efficiently? Telling you how many breaks you can take. Berating you if you go to the gym or whatever it is you may do because ‘not all women have that choice.’ It’s ludicrous.

Imagine a male forum where a man didn’t work because he didn’t need to (financially). Do you think other men would be piling in telling him to do all the housework?

What other people can or can’t do is irrelevant because the OP is living her life, with her children in the context of her marriage set-up.

The difference is that the OPs husband is telling her he is not happy doing half of everything whilst working a 40 hour week whilst she has time off every week to go to the dentist or whatever other nonsense the OP is spouting.

@saraya7 absolutely spot on. Apparently you can have it all ways here. I'm doomed and lucky all at the same time

And now I also have to worry DH is going to leave me "if I keep this up" The misogyny runs so deep that it's not even funny

@saraya7

Interesting that on this thread, being a SAHM is suddenly a ‘privilege’ because on most MN threads, SAHMs are basically told they have no economic or social agency; no hope for the future once the kids leave home ... they are doomed essentially . Oh, and the husband is bound to be having an affair.

But anyway ... Yes, I obviously agree having the choice to be a SAHM is a privilege not available to all families. But, in a sense, so what? Why should this mean its acceptable for other women to be castigating the OP, or declaring how much free time she is entitled to? . In the ‘real world,’ there are many manifestations of ‘privilege.’ Some people work in much harder conditions than others for a lot less money. Others are ‘privileged’ to be able to make different career choices, But what I have a problem with, is women telling other women that they ‘should’ be doing this or ‘should’ be doing that because of their own internalised misogyny and this weird notion that on MN, bring a SAHM means you have to justify yourself.

How would you like it if the OP asked you to justify what you do at work all day? Telling you you should work more efficiently? Telling you how many breaks you can take. Berating you if you go to the gym or whatever it is you may do because ‘not all women have that choice.’ It’s ludicrous.

Imagine a male forum where a man didn’t work because he didn’t need to (financially). Do you think other men would be piling in telling him to do all the housework?

What other people can or can’t do is irrelevant because the OP is living her life, with her children in the context of her marriage set-up.

What about this imagine the OPs husband posted.

"Looking for a bit of advice. I work long hours in a well paid job and agreed my wife would SAH to look after the kids. Since the kids have started going to nursery, I thought my wife would maybe start doing more housework during the day, to take the pressure off me a bit, but she doesn't want to do that because she needs time to fit in dentist appointments and stuff. So the set up now is I come home from my long day, look after the kids and then once they are in bed, get started on my half of the chores. I'm knackered and tried explaining it to her but she insists she should be allowed time to relax - she doesn't want to get a job either"

@ooooopsididit

I don't think cleaning my house is beneath me, or anyone else for that matter. But it isn't a priority for me.

Our house is very clean and tidy. I do my bit, DH does his. He'd like to do slightly less. We're in a position that we can afford a cleaner. Therefore the problem is solved as far as I can see.

I understand our lifestyle isn't the same as everyone else's. We are fortunate.

What is also a feature is that my worth as woman isn't based on how much I can do for everyone else. My self worth isn't based on how clean my house is.

I take time for myself because I need it. I know that's not a luxury everyone gets. Again, I'm fortunate and I acknowledge that.

I notice how many people are horrified by DH doing more than his share.

How many hundreds of threads are on this site from women who do far more than their fair share? And the advice is always the same, take time for yourself, stand your ground etc etc. So it's odd that when it's a woman doing less that it's so unpalatable

@ooooopsididit I agree with everything you say in this post, and I congratulate you for saying it.

It’s not misogyny to call someone lazy if they consider themselves entitled to a load of free time to themselves while their partner (who covers all their living expenses) works full time with no such me time.

You seem very insistent that to it husband is happy with this, despite the starting point of the thread being that he isn’t…

@ooooopsididit

I'm asking if it's a fair division of housework and childcare between us, as he works full time and I'm a SAHM but we split everything 50/50.

He seems to think not. I hadn't really thought about it until he pointed it out.

You're a SAHM but quite a bit of that time the children are in daycare...

@ThePlantsitter the post you quote from the Op makes no sense whatsoever. She says it’s weird that posters are criticising a woman for doing something that men get criticised for? As if women should be held to lower standards? You may applaud that, I don’t!

How many hundreds of threads are on this site from women who do far more than their fair share? And the advice is always the same, take time for yourself, stand your ground etc etc. So it's odd that when it's a woman doing less that it's so unpalatable

Not remotely odd - on threads where women are doing more than their fair share, their partners are criticised. So on this thread, where the majority perceive you are doing less than your fair share, you're being the one criticised.
Of course, this being MN, there are lots of posters who think that the man is always in the wrong as a starting point, regardless of any facts.