AIBU to wonder why people get with deadbeat dads

[WobbleMolly]

So ex was abusive + cheating. We separated with one child. He moved to another country and the child maintenance people could never get hold of him. He's contributed a grand total of about £50 towards his child's upbringing since we separated. Does not keep in touch even though I've never said 'no calls' or anything.

His sister and parents send birthday and Christmas cards but nothing else. And he remembers maybe every other year, no gift, just a text to dc. Just a full on deadbeat dad.

So he's got a new partner got married and they've had a child.

Who knows what he said about me. Obviously only the two people in the relationship know the full truth.

But you know he's got a child (he used to put pics on Facebook when we were together & me & his new partner have a few mutual acquaintances). And you know £0 of the household budget is going to pay for the child he already has.

But if he's said 'I'm not allowed see my child." Where's the paperwork showing you've tried to get visitation? Even a letter from a visit to a lawyer.

I would love to understand the mental gymnastics of why a person would be with a man who doesn't take care of his kids.

Even if they've been told "ex is a harpy who said I can't see the kids", that doesn't mean not paying for them. And even someone on minimum wage, after a few years can scrape together money for a lawyer to get visitation.

Yes, I sound bitter - I am. He is awful, but I also feel she disgusted by the people who partner with such men in full knowledge of their deadbeatness (that's a word now).

[quote veevee04]@Highwind do you not think that's a serious character flaw? If someone fucks off and abandons his flesh and blood what does that mean for you? He's likely not to want to stick around for you if the shit hit the fan , illness, loss of your job . It shows someone who is deeply selfish and can't care for others .[/quote]
@veevee04

I don't.

It means nothing for me other than he can't look after his kid.

I am just as likely to abandon him if shit hits the fan, you can't force anyone to stay with you, you can hope but not force.

It shows nothing of the sort. It shows only that he is a terrible father. Last I checked I am not looking for a father.

@frazzledasarock

Women have very very low bars when it comes to men. A lot of women want to be loved and be in a relationship and will ignore every red flag and justify it to themselves and to friends and family.

Women are brought up to put up with shit they’re taught to ‘forgive’, and fix and try harder and that poor menz think differently, can’t handle too much pressure, can’t multi task, can’t live on any less sleep than 12 hours unless they choose to be up all night gaming, really need down time and need to be off drinking with their mates and really need freedom and blah and blah.

Women are taught they need to suck it up and do the adulting and have responsibilities and must multi task, and take care of kids and hold down jobs (equally contributing financially towards households whilst simultaneously doing all the housework and childcare).

Society colludes with men in their acceptance of allowing men to walk away from their children. But my god is their condemnation at a mother for doing the same. A woman who abandons her child in the style of deadbeat dads the world over is the devil incarnate.

Women are expected to sacrifice and men are expected and accepted to be self serving.

Great post from @frazzledasarock !

[quote Highwind]@WobbleMolly

Not at all

Being a parent and being a spouse are two totally different relationships. Some people are fantastic at both.... some are shit at both. You can be great at one but not the other, why should I miss out on a wonderful partner because he found out he was a shocking father?

I don't believe people should be shamed away from being a parent because they are shit at relationships so why should a shit parent be shamed for having a relationship?

I also try to judge people only on how they treat me personally.[/quote]
I dont understand people like, it doesnt bode well at all if they treat their own flesh and blood like shit.

they would shit on you and not give it a second thought as they have zero loyalty, zero morals and no desire to do the right thing at all, as demonstrated by the abysmal way they treat their own children.

*I dont understand people like you.

You had a kid with him! Lol

If you dont know someone well enough to know they are trash, maybe spend more time talking?

Ita like you made your bed..

A lot of women are attracted to bad boys.

@VelvetChairGirl

*I dont understand people like you.

Which is fine. Variety is the spice of life.

I don't understand the women who rely on men in any capacity and then wonder why they got left up shit creek with no paddle.

Men can be great fun and some can even be useful (sometimes!) but few are worth gambling your life and future on.

Wish more women stopped screwing themselves over by chaining themselves emotionally to men.

@Lyonic

You had a kid with him! Lol

If you dont know someone well enough to know they are trash, maybe spend more time talking?

Ita like you made your bed..

I suppose thinking "what a stupid person" is reassuring.

You think 'that Molly's stupid, but I'M' not dumb, so I will never be taken advantage of.'

Even if I as an individual am stupid, it's good to know clever, strong women have never been abused.

Talk more. Yes being friends for years before dating isn't enough talking. What's a suitable minimum talking period? Ten years?

@WobbleMolly

You’re rewriting history because you are positioning yourself as a smart savvy women who was the victim of one abusive man but you aren't. You are the victim of multiple abusive man. Your child’s father, then your husband and previous men before that.

You have made many poor relationship choices including staying with a manipulative abuser for 10 years who cheated on you with prostitutes.

You seem incredibly contemptuous of other women’s poor decision making whilst ignoring your own!

You got pregnant in university and became a SAHM despite knowing that your visa meant you could never claim benefits. You’ve made yourself repeatedly dependent on men. I think dating a deadbeat dad is small fries compared to that!

He has probably lied to her, they may not even share finances so she may not see what he pays.
However, I do think some women actively resent any of 'their' money going to an ex and stepkids as it reduces the amount they can spend on their new family unit. I think it's more common than people want to admit.

@bluedodecagon

I acknowledge I have many flaws. I have been through many experiences I wouldn't wish on anyone else, both as a child and an adult.

I don't think I've said 'I'm smart and savy.' If I had met a random bloke off the street, I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out wrong. But I genuinely thought we had a solid foundation as friends of long standing, so was blindsided when he became abusive.

My question was how do people walk into a situation which very clearly seems like a dumpster fire. I can understand people not recognising subtle flags, or in hindsight that he took too many businesses trips or whatever.

[quote WobbleMolly]@bluedodecagon

I acknowledge I have many flaws. I have been through many experiences I wouldn't wish on anyone else, both as a child and an adult.

I don't think I've said 'I'm smart and savy.' If I had met a random bloke off the street, I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out wrong. But I genuinely thought we had a solid foundation as friends of long standing, so was blindsided when he became abusive.

My question was how do people walk into a situation which very clearly seems like a dumpster fire. I can understand people not recognising subtle flags, or in hindsight that he took too many businesses trips or whatever.[/quote]
Because they see it in exactly the same way you saw the mistakes that you made. This particular dumpster fire seems much more obvious to you because it's the one all around you. To someone standing a little way off, as you've done in the past, it's not so obvious.

It is a bit (exactly) like those people who can't understand how their ex found someone new when s/he is clearly such a tosser, completely forgetting that they were attracted to the tosser ex at one point. I know you're talking about after a child has been brought into it, but once again, you're seeing that red flag as somehow completely different to other kinds, and it isn't. People will overlook that one in exactly the same way you've overlooked the ones that didn't seem urgent and desperate to you at the time.

it doesnt bode well at all if they treat their own flesh and blood like shit

I suppose you mean "treat their own children like this" rather than "flesh and blood", because you don't have to be nice to people just because they are related to you.

I agree that there were probably red flags I missed.

And I know this is Mumsnet and the law is to take extreme positions. But surely there are some flags which are cocktail umbrella sized and some are a full Soviet parade.

Pp said I am contemptuous. I am not, I am genuinely baffled.

To use a previous example, major red flags are 'prison penpal', 'moroccan waiter who can't speak your language and half your age.' I can understand those people are lonely and want to believe.

I would have put deadbeat dad at that same level of red flag, but many people here have shown what lies that sound plausible they have heard.

Yes, some people are wilfully ignorant, but this was someone I had known for years. Charming and lovely
The signs are always there. You went ahead and had a child anyway so your choices are not necessarily superior to hers. At least she got the marriage though clearly that's not such a prize.
Like I said, I get your bitterness and I really do. Have been in a not dissimilar situation. You just have NO idea what has been said about you or your child and, if he's as charming as you say, he's in a great position to spin it his way whilst you're so bitter and angry. Not that you don't have the right to be.
It's a pointless question really and only serves to make you feel angrier. Neither of you have made good choices but you cling to yours being not as bad which is irrelevant. You will never know the truth and it serves you no purpose to obsess over it.
Concentrate on yourself and your child because they are what truly matter

I just don’t understand how you can be baffled when all you’ve had are abusive relationships. if you have a great relationship record it would make sense to be baffled by other peoples choices.

It probably sounds like I’m being mean but I think that obviously detaching from your situation is a defence mechanism of yours and the fact that you can’t see yourself in that woman or the similarities between you and that woman isn’t a good thing. It’s actually really sad. Because you obviously won’t accept the way you approach relationships. Which means that you are still likely vulnerable to more abusive relationships.

Have you left your ex husband btw? Not the baby daddy? The last loser?

You know some couples have separate finances right?
If he’s told the wife you’re a nightmare concocted convincing evidence, what do you want her to do?
He’s probably bring s wonderful dad to his new children and she cannot believe s world exists where he wouldn’t be involved with his child with ex, if it was a possibility at all.

I am not preaching. I came here asking a question about something that seems like a massive red flag to me.

I think it is obvious that some red flags are more obvious than others.

The vast majority of relationships end. Even where the couple get married, 42% of those end in divorce. How many of those end badly? Who knows. But probably, for those millions of people there would have been 'red flags' that it's not going to work out. Not that they are bad people, just not right.

I don't think anyone can disagree that some flags are subtle and some are blatant.

I came here asking about one which seems very blatant.

Pp have jumped on saying I've had bad relationships. If you can point out what obvious flags I missed that would be wonderful.

I'm talking about one specific red flag, and I've had answers about how the flags are hidden.

And yes, I know some couples have separate finances, but I didn't think that meant never even looking at a bank statement.

Have you left the husband? Yes or no? Because it sounds like you are still with the cheats-with-prostitutes-guy? Are you?

Yes, there are divorces but not all divorces end due to abuse so you can’t point to 42% as some sort of comfort about your own poor decision making.

You just seem convinced that all your abusive relationships are you being unlucky because these men were all subtle. You are going to insist there were no signs whatsoever and you have great judgment. That you are smarter than a woman who would date a deadbeat dad.

I truly doubt it. You just seem very arrogant and silly.

Arsehole whisperer brilliant!

I think these women are vulnerable and hope to tame him as others have said.

@bluedodecagon

We are legally separated. You think I sound arrogant. That I'm imagining the flags were subtle. You're allowed an opinion based on whatever you want.

The reason I used that figure was to show that 100% of people go into a relationship hoping it will work out, but that is not always the case, and it is unreasonable to say 'It was obvious.'

@OshaOsha

it doesnt bode well at all if they treat their own flesh and blood like shit

I suppose you mean "treat their own children like this" rather than "flesh and blood", because you don't have to be nice to people just because they are related to you.

So you think its perfectly fine to treat your own children like shit?

hope your not a parent.

@CJsGoldfish

Yes, some people are wilfully ignorant, but this was someone I had known for years. Charming and lovely The signs are always there. You went ahead and had a child anyway so your choices are not necessarily superior to hers. At least she got the marriage though clearly that's not such a prize. Like I said, I get your bitterness and I really do. Have been in a not dissimilar situation. You just have NO idea what has been said about you or your child and, if he's as charming as you say, he's in a great position to spin it his way whilst you're so bitter and angry. Not that you don't have the right to be. It's a pointless question really and only serves to make you feel angrier. Neither of you have made good choices but you cling to yours being not as bad which is irrelevant. You will never know the truth and it serves you no purpose to obsess over it. Concentrate on yourself and your child because they are what truly matter

No the signs are not always there stop victim blaming to try and make yourself feel superior and kid yourself that you would never fall for it.

the number of men in work today, everyday working next to you, seemingly hard working, lovely family men etc who go home and beat their wifes/kids is off the scale, thats how they get away with it for so long, whats done behind closed doors stays behind closed, "he couldn't possibly be like that", "but he's such a nice guy butter wouldnt melt in his mouth", "he cant be doing all that for no reason it takes two to tango".

here you are buying into misogyny hook line and sinker, victim blaming instead of looking at the perpetrator, on one level I understand it, its a comfort zone to you, but dont you ever feel any guilt for putting your sisters down.

go read "Why Does He Do That" maybe that'll help you figure out that no they dont all walk around with big red flags sticking out their heads.

pp asked about the fact you you chose to be in a relationship with him. For how long, how many years?

How about you turn it on your head and question why you had such poor self worth or emotional skills to not spot that he was a deadbeat. Why are women so poor at spotting this, red flags. Most of mn relationship boards are filled with women married to men who are cheaters, deadbeats, workaholic, controlling, rigid mentality etc. why are women marrying these twats in the first place?