Are we crazy - WWYD?

[Corneliafunk]

DH and I have won a trip away for 3 nights towards the end of next month!! We have to decide soon what we will do, but taking the kids with us is not an option. We are thinking of leaving them at home alone. They are 13 and 15 years. I have confidence/trust that they will keep to the usual routine during this time and get themselves off to school on the bus etc. The eldest one does most of the cooking anyway, so can do dinners ok although we would keep everything simple while we were away. They do argue but say they will spend most of the time separately in their rooms. Their grandmother lives nearby and can keep an eye on them. Alternatively, she could come to stay but doesn't keep great health so we can't really rely on this. She is also v worried about Covid..
And Covid is in some of the local schools. We have been told to prepare them for remote learning if there aren't enough teachers available on-site (which we have done).

We have friends who could each take one, but the kids don't want to do this and it would mean mattresses on the floor and disruption for our friends, altho they wouldn't mind for the short time. The prize means the distance we will be away is a couple of hours by car, but then a short boat ride to an island in a lake which sounds very cool! Not sure about cell coverage, but suspect not.
Would you think the kids are old enough and just do it and leave them at home alone (which is what we want to do), or should we make some sort of arrangement for them where they are with adults even if it is just in the evenings? Would you think we could leave them even in the knowledge that remote learning could suddenly be required while we are away?

YANBU - leave the kids at home alone
YABU- don't leave the kids home alone

[quote Migrainesbythedozen]@Partyatnumber10 Approaching the child and getting details of adults/friends/neighbours then contacting adults/friends the child gave them would have been better than leaping straight to reporting the mother to social services. There were ways without resorting to that, and putting her on record with them, especially when she was ill in hospital and least deserved it or needed it. Support, contact friends or neighbours first. SS very last resort.[/quote]
So I'm only responding to this as you seem a bit upset. I don't really want to derail a thread.
I haven't given anywhere close to the full story of what we did or didn't do here. I only commented on the part where SS felt that a 15 year old taking care of a 10 year old for 7 days was "safe enough" in their eyes. As that was relevant to the thread.
The rest isn't relevant and I can't/won't share details.
Rest assured though that the mum is well, happy and has a good relationship with both school and SS.

What exactly are SS going to do? Probably sigh and roll their eyes that you wasted their time reporting this.

@BIWI

Just out of interest, which country are you in *@Migrainesbythedozen* if not the UK?

@BIWI Australia.

@PurpleNebula84

The children definitely need an adult.

Although the law doesn't specifically state what age a child can be left over night, the general consensus/guidance is not to be left over night under the age of 16.
Copied this from gov.uk:
The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) says:

children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time
children under 16 should not be left alone overnight
babies, toddlers and very young children should never be left alone

This! Parents have a responsibility to make sure their kids have an adult with them when they go away. A 15 year-old is not an adult, no matter how capable and sensible they are. A 13 year old is definitely still a kid!

@HollowTalk

It's completely irresponsible. If you ever need to check whether you're being unreasonable, think of it as a Daily Mail headline.

"A couple go off on holiday leaving young teens at home alone"

Can you imagine the comments?

😂 who gives a shit about daily mail readers' opinions? They're spitting with rage over everything anyway.

Not safe. If anything were to happen that would be on the 15 year olds shoulders forever.

Is there anyone who could come later to stay overnight but not need be about during the day?

They need an adult in the house at night really. As a bare minimum.

Just wanted to say your kids sound awesome OP!

But to answer the question, I think they could do 1 night alone but 3 is too much for another couple of years.

Isn’t the legal age for being left at home alone 14 ?

@Friendofdennis

Isn’t the legal age for being left at home alone 14 ?

No, technically there’s no legal age. It’s a judgment call. The NSPCC advise that under 16s are not left alone at night and under 12s shouldn’t be left alone for any length of time during the day.

I think, if you're asking on here, then you are not fully confident in leaving them.
If you had no doubts, no niggles that it wasn't the best idea, no anxiety at the back of your mind, then it wouldn't have occurred to you to ask. You would have just gone ahead.
I think you know it's not a good idea- but you were hoping to get backing from others to try and justify your going anyway.
They're too young to be left for 3 days/ nights.

Purplenebula84 has it right about ages and nspcc. If something awful were to happen you would feel bad and get a lot of sh*t thrown at you by the tabloids.

I'd let a responsible 15 year old go off camping/backpacking with friends for 3 nights but I wouldn't leave them in sole control of a 13 year old, especially if they squabble.
It isn't fair and even if they are capable it is asking a lot of them.
Can you send 13 year old to Granny's house? Best of all would be to get Granny there as long as she is well enough to be a calming presence.

@BobbingWilson

What sort of food do you eat if the 15-year old does most of the cooking op? Surely the parents should do most of the cooking for their child?

Jesus wept 🙈

@Corneliafunk

I agree *@Earlymorningcuppa*. However the things said in this thread that make me stop and think, knowing my kids and our living situation (where truly the odds of an intruder are so remote, it is not one of my considerations) are: what if one becomes sick unexpectedly while we are gone, fire is always a risk (and we have lived thru the neighbour's house going up in flames one night impacting our place while we as a family were house-sitting a couple of years ago so my kids are v cautious about this) and to be honest, the schools believing we were negligent and being unhappy with what we were doing, should they hear of it. Given this i will talk to my MIL. We pay the 15-year old a bit extra to cook one meal a week, on the proviso that they will probably need to cook a couple of other nights too in the week for no money. During the school holidays, they cook most nights, and I or DH will do it at the weekends during this time. They enjoy it and it is so helpful to me and DH. There are trade offs as sometimes the meal is stodge but mostly it's good and sometimes even great! My manager at work had her child cooking a meal a night per week from the age of 10 and apparently it worked well. I get the 13 year old to cook at times. If there was a problem the kids would always think to ring their grandmother or other friends in the village, but of course this would be the last resort.

OP for gods sake walk away from this thread and make your own decision as the rational responsible parent that you clearly are. Mumsnet is not the real world, there is a preponderance of Pearl clutchers on here and you've hit the motherlode coming on here with a question about leaving your teenagers. You know your kids best and you don't need judgmental strangers on a parenting forum telling you what to do. There are even posters on here sweating about the fact that your 15 year old does a lot or even all of the cooking! So what! I would be delighted and proud of my 15 year old showed that kind of responsibility and maturity. Maybe he will turn out to be an amazing chef someday. People on here need to get a grip,

No-one can tell you what to do but if something does happen while you're away you'll never forgive yourself. Hard enough it was an emergency but a holiday?

Contact the prize providers. Tell them that you cannot organize childcare, and could you bring the children if you pay for them?

@arethereanyleftatall

I'm not saying I would do this, but going through the scenarios of what might go wrong...

1. Intruder. 15 yr old superior to gran here?
2. Fire. Just need to get out. Again, a 15 & 13 yr old could do this.

I think when we decide what age to leave our own kids we don't/won't do it unless we think they would handle each emergency scenario perfectly. But, post child age, many many people live alone who are vulnerable, so maybe we should compare to that rather than Bruce Willis or something? Just musing. For example, I'm an adult, but quite a frightened, weak character - I would be useless in an intruder situation - my 13yo would be better.

Are you suggesting the 15 year old should fight off the intruder?

@nokidshere why is it unlikely that a 15 year old had a baby? She ended up in sheltered accommodation as her situation at home was not feasible for her to stay there. Why is it impossible to imagine that not everybody has lovely rosey homes with great parents? And no social services do not do a great deal.

Not unlikely that an15yr old had a baby, unlikely that they would be living alone with one.

And, since you ask, at the age of 10 & 11 my sister & I looked after and fed all 6 of us - oldest 11 and youngest 3 - whilst our violent alcoholic father was either in the pub or passed out in his own filth and mum had left home. I don't have a rosy view of anything!

It's still wrong and irresponsible to leave a 15yr old in charge of a 13yr old for 3 nights.

nokidshere why is it unlikely that a 15 year old had a baby? She ended up in sheltered accommodation as her situation at home was not feasible for her to stay there. Why is it impossible to imagine that not everybody has lovely rosey homes with great parents? And no social services do not do a great deal.

Not unlikely that an15yr old had a baby, unlikely that they would be living alone with one.

And, since you ask, at the age of 10 & 11 my sister & I looked after and fed all 6 of us - oldest 11 and youngest 3 - whilst our violent alcoholic father was either in the pub or passed out in his own filth and mum had left home. I don't have a rosy view of anything!

It's still wrong and irresponsible to leave a 15yr old in charge of a 13yr old for 3 nights.

You've got 2 years left imo until you can do this.

@Migrainesbythedozen hang on before you give yourself a migraine! Reporting to SS isn't going to the police, it is going to an agency who are there to help and support.

SS frequently arrange temporary foster care for children vulnerable young people whose parents have to go into hospital.

[quote HomeHomeInTheRange]@Migrainesbythedozen hang on before you give yourself a migraine! Reporting to SS isn't going to the police, it is going to an agency who are there to help and support.

SS frequently arrange temporary foster care for children vulnerable young people whose parents have to go into hospital.[/quote]
@HomeHomeInTheRange It means they have a record with SS!

Also far better for them to arrange them to stay with friends or neighbours than be put in foster care, even temporary!

And I don't mean to sound angry, I'm not, it's just the way I speak (type?).

Whether or not there is an intruder is beside the point, it's about how your children - and they ARE children- may feel if they wake in the night to creaks or bumps. It's scary.

You are intent on convincing yourself and I dare say you could get away with it but personally I think it's irresponsible and unkind.

@sweetbellyhigh

Whether or not there is an intruder is beside the point, it's about how your children - and they ARE children- may feel if they wake in the night to creaks or bumps. It's scary.

You are intent on convincing yourself and I dare say you could get away with it but personally I think it's irresponsible and unkind.

They would heard those creaks and bumps even if their mother is there. And at that age they would be a lot braver and more agile than their mother. I think not teaching children to be independent is irresponsible and unkind. It's a failure of parenting, and there are plenty of examples of that on this thread, including the mother whose 16 year old daughter cannot even boil water without starting a fire. God, we learned that in Home Ec and 12 years old! There is plenty of irresponsible and unkind and frankly neglectful parenting on this thread. Just not the way you think.