Are we crazy - WWYD?

[Corneliafunk]

DH and I have won a trip away for 3 nights towards the end of next month!! We have to decide soon what we will do, but taking the kids with us is not an option. We are thinking of leaving them at home alone. They are 13 and 15 years. I have confidence/trust that they will keep to the usual routine during this time and get themselves off to school on the bus etc. The eldest one does most of the cooking anyway, so can do dinners ok although we would keep everything simple while we were away. They do argue but say they will spend most of the time separately in their rooms. Their grandmother lives nearby and can keep an eye on them. Alternatively, she could come to stay but doesn't keep great health so we can't really rely on this. She is also v worried about Covid..
And Covid is in some of the local schools. We have been told to prepare them for remote learning if there aren't enough teachers available on-site (which we have done).

We have friends who could each take one, but the kids don't want to do this and it would mean mattresses on the floor and disruption for our friends, altho they wouldn't mind for the short time. The prize means the distance we will be away is a couple of hours by car, but then a short boat ride to an island in a lake which sounds very cool! Not sure about cell coverage, but suspect not.
Would you think the kids are old enough and just do it and leave them at home alone (which is what we want to do), or should we make some sort of arrangement for them where they are with adults even if it is just in the evenings? Would you think we could leave them even in the knowledge that remote learning could suddenly be required while we are away?

YANBU - leave the kids at home alone
YABU- don't leave the kids home alone

@Partyatnumber10

For all the people saying they'd report as a safeguarding issue. We recently reported a 15 year old left at home for 7 days to care for his 10 year old severely autistic brother whilst mum was in hospital. Social services were completely fine with it and we were treated as if we were being really precious

What are your neighbours like op? Is there anybody who could keep an eye on them? Drop in, bring food and be first point of contact in case of emergancy?
That might be ok.
Otherwise, fingers crossed that grandma stays well enough as this sounds like the best solution.

I hope you feel proud of yourself reporting a sick mum in hospital who likely had no choice whatsoever in leaving her 15 year old son to care for his brother? I wouldn't advocate that however she was clearly desperate, it's not like she left him for a 7 day holiday with her boyfriend, she was sick in hospital and you made her desperately hard life even harder! Shame on you!! Absolutely shame on you!!! I hope what you did to that mother keeps you up at night for the rest for a very long time! I cannot believe you were that heartless to do that. That makes me so angry. It was the last thing she needed surely.

They should go to friends for the three nights.
I think they are too young to be left alone for 3 nights.
I'd be worried about the 15 year old maybe bringing friends back and the situation getting out of control if more people are invited on social media. Happened to my cousin's neighbour a few years back. The 15 year old and a younger child were left alone for one night. The 15 year old thought it would be fun to invite a few friends round to watch a film and eat pizza. It ended up on social media and before they knew it the house was full of 18 year olds drinking and trashing the place. Ended up in the local newspaper there was so much damage.

And yes, you might think your 15 year old is sensible and responsible but it just takes one of their friends to not be sensible and you've got a situation on your hands.

So what? You do know that's not at all normal don't you?

It is legal in the UK, plenty of people get married as teenagers.

I would have been ok on my own when I was 17. not so much when I was 15. And not being responsible for my siblings. and I know this because my mum did used to leave me alone in the house overnight when she went on work trips, I was responsible for my younger siblings. It wasn't good parenting. And it wasn't 3 nights in a row.

Perhaps you didn't notice that I was replying to a post about under 18s needing a babysitter. Did you need a babysitter at 17?

I think its fine, theres 2 of them. I was left at similar ages, as were my friends.

I left home at sixteen had a job ran the house, paid the bills cleaned cooked, never set it on fire and as far as I'm aware didn't succumb to a masked murderer. 15 is absolutely fine to leave the problem you have is the interaction between the 15&13 is there likely to be drama and arguments? How close are you with your neighbours? Ideally I'd ask Gran to pop in or at least sleep over. But only you know your kids and tbh it's sound like you are fairly confident in them but worried about what others may say about the situation? Equally for me the lack of communication would be more if a concern than actually leaving them. Purely 'im on the end of the phone' scenario but you may not be. (I could actually leave my 2nd alone and she'd be absolutely fine but my eldest lives on another planet when it comes to attitude and responsibilities)
Sounds like you maybe need to draft in a neighbor or friend or Gran even an older teen relative?

"I hope you feel proud of yourself reporting a sick mum in hospital who likely had no choice whatsoever in leaving her 15 year old son to care for his brother? I wouldn't advocate that however she was clearly desperate, it's not like she left him for a 7 day holiday with her boyfriend, she was sick in hospital and you made her desperately hard life even harder! Shame on you!! Absolutely shame on you!!! I hope what you did to that mother keeps you up at night for the rest for a very long time! I cannot believe you were that heartless to do that. That makes me so angry. It was the last thing she needed surely"

Erm are you alright there @Migrainesbythedozen ?

You seem to have taken this very personally so perhaps it's touched a nerve.

I'm neither proud or ashamed of this decision. A child in my care had a safeguarding need so I made the appropriate decisions, alongside the school safeguarding team.
To have a safeguarding concern and not act on it because I felt sorry for the parents would be extremely unprofessional.

Also, if SS had been concerned then the likely outcome would have been a foster place for one or both lads until mum was out of hospital or some sort of family support worker provision whilst she was ill.
Both of which would have helped to make mum's stay a little easier.

Too young - if the 13 year old tells anyone at school, the safeguarding lead WILL get involved and you WILL get in trouble with Social Services, poss police.
They need to go to a mate's - call in favours or gran needs to come stay regardless of how little help she may be.
They may be sensible but you have no idea how they may act in an emergency and you'll never forgive yourself if something happened.

'We recently reported a 15 year old left at home for 7 days to care for his 10 year old severely autistic brother whilst mum was in hospital.
Social services were completely fine with it and we were treated as if we were being really precious'

There's a big difference between how SS would view the above situation than one in which the parents go off on holiday.

I've left 15 year old home alone for a couple of nights, but we live in flats where he could ask a neighbour for help.

Not sure about leaving 15 year old in charge of younger sibling. Sounds like too much responsibility.

I'd aim for grandmother staying over, with friends as backup if she wasn't well enough at the last minute

@Migrainesbythedozen

'17 year olds are moving out of home into flats and dorms at uni. You're saying a 17 year old needs a babysitter?

If your 16 year old can't cook pasta without starting a fire, you've failed as a parent. 13 year olds can cook family meals.'

But mostly they aren't moving out to flats and dorms, mostly they're still under the care of adults in some way or have adult support.
Not that it really matters here as the children are 15 and 13 not 17.
Bit harsh on the 16 year old. Adults start fires accidently, let alone kids.I don't think you've 'failed as a paren't because your kid has a mishap in the kitchen...

I have a very sensible 16 year old ds and a 13 year old dd. I still wouldn’t leave them alone for 3 days/nights. We haven’t been away on our own for 10+ years, would love to but just need to wait a couple of years.. It must feel wonderful to win a weekend away, sorry it’s crap timing.

@Lovelteers

'We recently reported a 15 year old left at home for 7 days to care for his 10 year old severely autistic brother whilst mum was in hospital. Social services were completely fine with it and we were treated as if we were being really precious'

There's a big difference between how SS would view the above situation than one in which the parents go off on holiday.

In the long term yes, a parent in hospital, support until well again then withdraw, a parent in holiday may warrant further parenting discussions.

In the short term though, the only concern would be how safe they considered the two children.

I only shared this example to illustrate that Social services may be less concerned by this than people think.

My kids aren't that age so I don't know what I'll do, but I'll say my mum and dad left us to go to lanzarote with my youngest sibling who was 6 when I was 12 and sister was 15 and we were fine.

@Realis have you read some of the comments from teachers on here and how they would have to report?

What do you think social services can actually do? If they take teens into care they can just walk out and go home again. Teachers report lots of things, it doesn't mean anything will be done about it.

I personally wouldn't do this but the idea that they would be in significant danger is also baffling.

[quote Lovelteers]@Migrainesbythedozen

'17 year olds are moving out of home into flats and dorms at uni. You're saying a 17 year old needs a babysitter?

If your 16 year old can't cook pasta without starting a fire, you've failed as a parent. 13 year olds can cook family meals.'

But mostly they aren't moving out to flats and dorms, mostly they're still under the care of adults in some way or have adult support.
Not that it really matters here as the children are 15 and 13 not 17.
Bit harsh on the 16 year old. Adults start fires accidently, let alone kids.I don't think you've 'failed as a paren't because your kid has a mishap in the kitchen...[/quote]
@Lovelteers That poster indicated her daughter can't cook, and can't cook without setting fire, at the age of 16. That really is not normal. You should be able to boil water at say, 10 or 11 years old without starting a fire.

Df did this leaving her two "capable" teens 17 and 15 home alone whilst she and dh went on a long weekend away. PILs were five minutes away. They invited a few friends round for dvd's Word spread, the girls daren't call their grandparents when there were thirty teens turn up, an hour and a half later her neighbours called the police because of the noise and the numbers in the garden. Df got home in the early hours to the house ransacked, carpets ruined sofas with cigarette burns, her bed pissed on, a sink off of the wall etc. The girls didn't know many of them as friends had invited friends who invited more friends. I certainly wouldn't leave them if they arent even sixteen anyway wouldn't school raise concerns.

@Lovelteers

'We recently reported a 15 year old left at home for 7 days to care for his 10 year old severely autistic brother whilst mum was in hospital. Social services were completely fine with it and we were treated as if we were being really precious'

There's a big difference between how SS would view the above situation than one in which the parents go off on holiday.

Would the risk be less then if the mother was in hospital. I'd have thought 7 days with a 15 year old caring for a child who was severely autistic would have been more of a worry.

@Partyatnumber10 Approaching the child and getting details of adults/friends/neighbours then contacting adults/friends the child gave them would have been better than leaping straight to reporting the mother to social services. There were ways without resorting to that, and putting her on record with them, especially when she was ill in hospital and least deserved it or needed it. Support, contact friends or neighbours first. SS very last resort.

[quote Migrainesbythedozen]@Partyatnumber10 Approaching the child and getting details of adults/friends/neighbours then contacting adults/friends the child gave them would have been better than leaping straight to reporting the mother to social services. There were ways without resorting to that, and putting her on record with them, especially when she was ill in hospital and least deserved it or needed it. Support, contact friends or neighbours first. SS very last resort.[/quote]
It sounds like the poster who did this did so in a professional capacity. You have a duty of care to those children you work with. If you are concerned you have to escalate it or risk being investigated yourself.

She was just doing her job. Please don’t be so offended by it.

Never in a million years I als think it might be illegal

They're teenagers, they'll be fine for a few days. MN is weird.

@ancientgran

One of my kids got meningitis at uni, I had to go as it was serious and hospital phoning repeatedly. I had to leave the 15 year old alone for a week, didn't get a chance to discuss it with him, phoned the school to check he had a key. Left him money and phoned that night.

He was fine, as was the sick one. Most nightmare week of my life.

@ancientgran What a nightmare. A relative of mine died of meningitis at the age of 16. Her brother got her to the hospital but it was sadly too late. It took less than 24hrs. Her parents were on holiday abroad, didn’t make it home in time. They were never the same again.

Just out of interest, which country are you in @Migrainesbythedozen if not the UK?

Would the risk be less then if the mother was in hospital

Clearly not, but being in hospital is apparently virtuous whereas going on holiday isn't. Why this would make any difference to the kids home alone I have no idea. I'd have thought the worry of mum being in hospital would make it a more risky situation, personally.

I remember being 15. I wouldn't leave me alone for one night, never mind 3.