To be annoyed my friends son has kicked a hole in my wall?

[TedOnTheBed]

I have posted about his behaviour before and pretty much told I was being unsupportive. I am not she can not control him, there are no special needs involved he is brat and acts out destroying things and attacking people to get his own way. She says no he goes on a 30-45 minute rampage which ends in him doing something like smashing a tv, phone screen or head butting someone on the nose causing a nose bleed etc etc. she then gives in and he gets what he wants and he INSTANTLY snaps out of the tantrum until he hears the word no again and then it is a repeat. My AIBU is would it be mean to ban a just turned 5 year old from my house? I find his behaviour unbearable and absolutely detest spending anytime with him.

@Spikeyball

"I am talking about children, not children with disabilities. 99% of the time the only behaviour difficulties is naughtiness."

Young children who do not have difficulties do not usually have that level of behaviour. Blaming only naughtiness speaks of lack of knowledge. Happy children do not behave like that.

Yes they do. You seem to have limited experience in this area. Otherwise happy children who want something will throw tantrums. Throw toys, books around, kick things. Anything that gets them what they want. And they learn early how to play parents. You don't seem to have much experience with children.

"You don't seem to have much experience with children."

You don't have enough experience of behavioural difficulties to recognise what was described goes beyond an ordinary tantrum.

You say the behaviour stops when he's "won", but surely sometimes the child just can't win. If it's something dangerous then the just cannot do it? For example I want to play superhero's jumping off the bed etc but with.a sharp object in my hand, that's very obviously a hard no. What happens then?

I too think this is beyond naughtiness, something else going on. ,

I would tell her you will have to meet up outside from now on as you can’t have her son damaging any more of your property. She has really got a cheek just ignoring it and you’re right to be disappointed in yourself for not talking to her about it.

"I too think this is beyond naughtiness, something else going on. ,"

And something else doesn't have to mean ASC, Adhd etc. Behaviour like this can be due to trauma. Either way it should be investigated. Dismissing it as naughtiness is not supporting the child.

You would hope as society we have gone beyond blaming children for behaviour and calling them naughty. The child is melting down because he doesn't understand the situation, this could be because he is nd, highly sensitive, has poor communication skills. It could be down to both parents not knowing how to manage their child. But why do much judgment? None of us know something until we learn it. The people standing in judgment don't have a child that behaves this way and therefore think they are superior. No if your child behaves how you want them to it's because they are receptive to your parenting methods, that doesn't make you better than others it just makes you lucky. The parent does need to change her approach and she's lucky to have a supportive friend like op. If op wants to help her further then helping her to get support /research parenting methods would be the best way. I completely get why op doesn't want the child visiting and that's her right, the parent managed the situation badly but it's so good that she doesn't want to abandon her friend who is having a tough time.

I would be a bit concerned about my dd being in that environment tbh.

Many years ago we had a friend whose ds would behave this way. We were friends with the father and would see him with his ds. The friend was so afraid to discipline his ds incase he went back to his mother and said Dad did XYZ, she would report the father for really minor reasons (it was an awful split). So when he was with his dad, he was just impossible. The final straw was when he came to visit again, and went into a tantrum of note (he was about 8 by this stage). I was pregnant and he tried to kick me in the stomach. The father did not reprimand him, but my now exh did. That was the last time I saw him, as I refused to be in the same room as him. Looking back, my ds behaviour also changed when he was around him, he is a lot younger but he was picking up on this.

He is an adult now. He dropped out of school and was arrested just after his 18th birthday and served some time for selling drugs. His mother remarried and washed her hands of him. The father still pussyfoots around him all these years later.

Please have a word with your friend OP. If you have been friends for this amount of time, then tell her that her ds in not welcome and perhaps plant the seed that this isn't normal behaviour. Yes, it will be tough and you may lose a friendship. But the child is not just going to snap out of this behaviour. He either needs some assessing to be sure that there is nothing underlying, or she needs to go on a parenting course.

But I know it is a difficult situation.

@stilltiredinthemorning not really, if a child did that to my wall I’d be cross

Too many people are focussing on whether the child is SEN or not. IMO, there is too much emphasis on this board about missbehaving children having special needs instead of lacking a good behaviour routine at home. The problem with excusing behaviour early on is that we get arshole adults later on thinking they are entitled to do as they want with partners, spouses and friends.

Some kids because they are livelier or have high attention needs require more structure in their lives than their parents can provide and it translates in destructive behaviour. This is for their parents to address.

The OP should be focussing on her daughter not mirroring the same behaviour as her little friend by stopping contact. They are so little, her daughter will make new friends in no time.

@Alondra I agree, not every child who’s naughty or a PITA has SEN, some are just like that due to their environment

@Alondra I agree even if child is Sen it doesn't make the behaviour acceptable it just means parents need to find alternative parenting methods or get help to to learn to do so. Parenting my Sen child is completely different to parenting my nt children.

It's not about excusing but about explaining. If you don't have the correct explanation for the behaviour then the methods you use for dealing with it may be wrong.
Standard parenting methods don't work with some children. If a child has PDA for example then being 'stricter' is going to cause more problems. It needs a different technique. If a child's behaviour is because they are not coping in certain environments or situations then that needs non standard techniques.
Added to which the support available for parents of children who need non standard techniques is woeful.

You offer to pay
If your children break something
How utterly rude

@Spikeyball

"I too think this is beyond naughtiness, something else going on. ,"

And something else doesn't have to mean ASC, Adhd etc. Behaviour like this can be due to trauma. Either way it should be investigated. Dismissing it as naughtiness is not supporting the child.

Putting up with it and ignoring it isn't the answer either. Friends need to be honest with each other- that's truly caring if not done with the intent of punishing child or mother. As her friend, after her son had created a hole in my wall, I'd be having very honest talk where I spelled out that his behaviour isn't acceptable in my home, isn't normal anyway and helping her face it and seek professional help (counselling to help her out in place boundaries).

@Dibbydoos

How do hou kniw he isn't Special Needs? He sounds like he needs help to me.

She needs to take him to see a GP and then get him into something that will help him and her understand and deal with his behaviour.

So many people judging the mum, wtf!

But in answer to your question I wouldn't have him around my house.

Even if he has special needs it doesn't excuse the damage to the OP's house. As a child, before diagnosis (ADHD and autism), I would often be assumed to be "the naughty kid". My mum would happily explain it wasn't the case, but no way would she have pretended not to notice any damage! In the OP's scenario, she would have apologised and offered to pay for repairs. She wouldn't have had to be harsh with me (but would at least explain why it was unacceptable) but she certainly wouldn't have ignored it and allowed such behaviour to continue without any acknowledgement. The mum isn't being judged for potentially having a child with additional needs, as we don't know if he actually does, she's being quite rightly judged for rudely leaving the OP to sort the damage out, at her own expense, without so much as an apology.

I have a friend whose child has very challenging behaviour including violence. She is open with me about her struggles. Asks for my thoughts and is clearly doing her best to deal with it. Therefore I am sympathetic and do my best to help her in this tough situation. I would have very little sympathy if she appeared to do nothing like the mother in this story.

I think is a family that you meet outside or in a public place

If DH has managed to cut out and tape the hole etc then leave it unpainted. Next time the family is over explain politely but directly to him that you’ve fixed the hole in the wall that he created last time he was over and now you expect him to make things right by helping to paint it. Negative action = consequence. If he refuses then you explain calmly but firmly that if he doesn’t fix the mess he created then he can’t come to your house in future because you don't stand for that kind of behaviour in your home. Up to you if you want your friend or not. If he kicks off then apologise to Mum but say you think it’s best if they head home, but say you’ll keep DD and drop her back later once the girls have played. Again, negative action = consequence, his sister gets to stay but he doesn’t. It’s not your job to parent the kid but she is obviously struggling. Maybe a gentle reminder about consequences and a bit of direct action is what she needs.

@Blahblahblah40

If DH has managed to cut out and tape the hole etc then leave it unpainted. Next time the family is over explain politely but directly to him that you’ve fixed the hole in the wall that he created last time he was over and now you expect him to make things right by helping to paint it. Negative action = consequence. If he refuses then you explain calmly but firmly that if he doesn’t fix the mess he created then he can’t come to your house in future because you don't stand for that kind of behaviour in your home. Up to you if you want your friend or not. If he kicks off then apologise to Mum but say you think it’s best if they head home, but say you’ll keep DD and drop her back later once the girls have played. Again, negative action = consequence, his sister gets to stay but he doesn’t. It’s not your job to parent the kid but she is obviously struggling. Maybe a gentle reminder about consequences and a bit of direct action is what she needs.

OMG this is none of OP's responsibility to fix!

Sorry, don’t know what I meant by “up to you if you want your friend or not” 😂 just ignore that.

@Blahblahblah40

If DH has managed to cut out and tape the hole etc then leave it unpainted. Next time the family is over explain politely but directly to him that you’ve fixed the hole in the wall that he created last time he was over and now you expect him to make things right by helping to paint it. Negative action = consequence. If he refuses then you explain calmly but firmly that if he doesn’t fix the mess he created then he can’t come to your house in future because you don't stand for that kind of behaviour in your home. Up to you if you want your friend or not. If he kicks off then apologise to Mum but say you think it’s best if they head home, but say you’ll keep DD and drop her back later once the girls have played. Again, negative action = consequence, his sister gets to stay but he doesn’t. It’s not your job to parent the kid but she is obviously struggling. Maybe a gentle reminder about consequences and a bit of direct action is what she needs.

This is the funniest thing I have read in a long time, I am sure it would instantly fix the issue....not!

Ridiculous suggestion.

@phishy no, clearly it’s not, but personally I’d be proper f*cked off if a kid did this in my house and the parent did nothing about it so I’d take the bull by the horns. Op is not parenting him, she is asking him directly to help make right the mess he caused. Same as she would if he was an adult who kicked a hole in her wall. If he refuses then you ask him to leave, again, the same as you would if he was an adult who refused to help fix it. Why should the OP and her DH have to fix the problem alone when the child is capable of assisting with a little painting?? She can’t just brush it under the carpet and pretend it never happened and nowhere did I say she couldn’t talk to her friend first and warn her that will be the expectation when he gets there.

Did I say it would instantly fix it? No. It’s a suggestion on how to deal with the particular situation where her friends kid had kicked a hole in her wall, without sacrificing her child’s friendship with his sister.

You want a 5 year old with anger issues to use paint in the house? How’s that going to work? LOL

Dear OP,

I would invite the daughter round on her own to play with your daughter, or offer to take the 2 girls to the cinema etc. Your daughter shouldn't have to lose her friend over the other kids behaviour.
Then I would arrange to see the Mum on her own for a meal (adult time) when the kids are with their Dad.

Broaching this stuff is hard but as someone else said 'your friend is raising an unloveable child' - it might be hard at 5 but it'll be a load worse at 8, 9, etc as he gets stronger and maybe even lashes out and hurts your friend or her daughter and as he starts to feel the harsh social isolation that comes alongside acting like a dick. This behaviour needs nipping in the bud now with some clear boundaries. No means no, you don't go back on that - it teaches kids that being a pain in the arse works so they should keep nagging, destroying, etc. Also, it doesn't feel good watching a child grow up seeing their peer group reject them - you'll wish you had said something sooner when something was easier to do about it. I would talk to your friend and try and broach the rough ride he is in for and point her in the direction of supportive resources to put in place to improve the behaviours. It would make you an epic friend to be the supportive one that tries to help her be the best parent she can be to help him be the best person he can be.

-Sorry, that was long