Can’t forgive MIL aibu?

[Bluffysummers]

For transparency I’ve also posted in relationships but I’m posting here for traffic because she’s expected around in the next 15 mins.

I really need some tips on how to deal with my MIL, she’s visiting today and honestly my patience with her is so thin the thought of her visiting makes me tense.

Just so y’all don’t think I’m one of those mean DIL this is why.

I’m a white Muslim dh is south Asian. We met fell in love and wanted to marry. The diatribe I’ve had from her about this in the beginning was unreal I’ve been called a kafir (disbeliever) because I’m white, told I have no family values and that I’m a gold digger. I continued to make an effort and put all this down to ignorance, she’d basically be hot and cold, one day nice and the next she’d refuse to engage with me and let her in her. By making an effort I mean taking her on days out, treating her to lunch, cooking dinner for her etc. I felt it was thrown back in my face and it did hurt my feelings. It came to a head over 2 things, a family wedding (split strictly men women) and none do the women would let me sit down for food, including her, I’d approach a chair and they’d put their bag there or say this seat is taken etc. It was very mean girls ‘you can’t sit with us’ and then secondly when dh and I had plans with my parents and she didn’t like it so pretended to her extended family she was dying and got them all to call us and basically give us a telling off for leaving her alone. From then I could take no more and went NC. There is more she had a temper tantrum when we bought our house because it was too far from her (20’mins).

I swept this all under the rug and went clean slate when dc was born. She wanted to babysit dc when we wfh, wanted to actually begged. She’d come to our house to do it. Behind our backs she’s been making nasty comments about our house, of course it got back to me but the big issue for me was she was basically neglecting dd. DD is a v warm little girl and loves everyone but she actively hates MIL, she sees her and will burst into tears. V strange. At first we thought it was the language barrier but she’s met other people who speak no English and is fine with them. By contrast when she sees MIL even via face time she bursts into tears and cries no no no. Often MIL would leave her in a soiled nappy (a few times we’d give the benefit of the doubt as we’ve all missed one here and there ), would sit in doors all day, no Interaction with dd I’d come down and she’d just be watching her tv shows (mil) and dd would be playing alone, wouldn’t open windows when it’s hot, wouldn’t fill up her drink, I was working through lunch once and then heard an argument and MIL behind dh back when he popped to the loo forcefed dd spicy food and it triggered a huge food aversion (didn’t even apolgise, just said well she needs to know she’s Asian not white). When dd was learning to walk heard her scream and was on the floor crying when we came down, MIL refused to say what happened, managed to get it out of her she slipped and hit her head she wouldn’t say what surface she fell onto (tile big problem for under / carpet not so much) . Dd was also so unhappy, crying and crying banging on doors trying to get away , had to battle with dh to cut the babysitting he kept on giving her the benefit of the doubt but to put a child in danger is unacceptable. I just can’t get passed it.

When ds was born she also had another tantrum because we didn’t let her name him and gave him a disgusting English name (according to her).

Honestly I’m not keen for more contact with dcs but dh still wants some only supervised contact. But I’m still quite angry. She’s done a few other bits too, like ruin DDs bday day out on asking to come, making us pay and then moaning and wanting to go home after an hour.

For context she doesn’t work, dh has paid for her since he was 17 years old. Chauffeured her around. What she wanted was me to move into her house and give up work and then buy a bigger house in the same area for us all to live in.

I guess what I’m asking for is how would you manage this, im happy to hear if im being pfb which is what she said I was but I don’t think I am

Am I being petty and unreasonable because I’m really struggling to move past how she treated dd and how she acted when ds was born?

Can’t see your husband going NC as there is no way he will do this to his mum - reading between the lines of what you have written and others have commented he will face the wrath of his religion/interpretation of it - heaven lies at the feet of the mother etc and also of his community - in our community blah blah blah unlike the white community…… My advise would be to make sure you are always there when MIL sees kids as your husband will not see things the way you see them and let his mother get away with some of her behaviour. Good luck

Hi for context I am Asian (not South) in a mixed marriage as well and have 4 kids so fully
understand the culture, values and traditions.

When you got married your husband would have known that MIL wouldn’t like it. She would be difficult due to the perceived values/traditions/culture. He chose you, he chose to marry you. He probably thought it would blow over and it would eventually be fine. However his job is to look after you and your children first as you are his nuclear family. Anyone else including MIL should be secondary. He should never have accepted MIL saying things like “She needs to know she is Asian not White” or you have given your son a “disgusting English name” or that you are a Kaffir because you are white. This needs to be addressed ASAP, he needs to make it clear it is racist behaviour, unacceptable, and will not be tolerated. Whether she likes it or not your children are duel heritage, and and white and Asian. It is unacceptable for them to hear anything detrimental about you or your background/heritage whatever her views may be. This will affect your children growing up, when they hear these things, (if it’s not addressed) they will think it is ok for people to say that and may also see themselves as not worthy of their extended family etc. Their self worth will be affected. Silence on this makes your husband complicit with the racism. I’m assuming you have called her out on it??

The situation with the wedding is completely unacceptable, and a power play on your MIL part as you were segregated from hubby and vulnerable. This does not mean you have to accept her behaviour. In your position I would have said something and left with husband and kids in tow- again he should be leading on this. It is unacceptable to be treated this way by anyone. You need to have clear boundaries with MIL, and an agreement with husband if she ever tries anything like that again you leave collectively as a nuclear family.

She is power playing and asserting her authority over your husband using emotional blackmail. She is doing it to you as well as you know she saw you as an outsider knows that you wanted her to accept you. The issue is unless these issues to do with colour/being white/kaffir and your kids are Asian/not white attitudes are addressed it will never happen. She will have zero respect for you or your relationship. She won’t ever see you on an equal footing. The only way that will starts to happen is if she sees that she will lose her son. Asian mums will do anything for their sons!! Daughters not so much! It’s a difficult situation for your husband as essentially he has to chose between his wife and mother. I have personal experience of this myself. He doesn’t want to/doesn’t see these passive aggressive behaviours from MIL as patterns, brushing them off as little incidents and hoping the issues can eventually be resolved. They can’t, and won’t be until he shows MIL that he chooses you and his kids every time. He needs to be clear even small things are unacceptable and if she continues she won’t see him or kids or your family unit going forward, and stick to the threat. This needs to happen even over small comments that are made. Once she sees that, the dynamics of their relationship (mother and son) will change and eventually she will realise that she cannot continue this behaviour as it will be addressed every single time. Feel free to PM if you want to talk.

@ user7643789 In this post the MIL is being racist towards OP and her children. I don’t understand how you don’t see this!!!

User7643789
I understand that as a white person I can not suffer racism.
I don't agree. A person no matter what colour or religion can suffer.
If a person is suffering by the hands of a different colour or religion, just because of their colour or belief it's racism.

Thanks for your comment @Advice79 it’s v nuanced.

You’re right, he thought it would blow over. It’s just got more insidious in my opinion, from full aggressive to passive aggressive. I myself am v limited in my ability to communicate with her its mainly understanding and she does just enough to cause hurt but still maintain plausible deniability. Like at the wedding, oh she didn’t know, she was caught up in the day and was distracted and she’s so sorry if she caused upset. When she pretended she was dying, she felt v light headed and thought she was going to die so fell to the floor in fear. All the comments on whiteness oh it’s because so and so told me. Same with ds’s name. Dh thinks someone gets in her head and causes her to act out which may well be true but she’s still responsible for what she says and does.

He won’t accept, even know that it’s very abnormal for dd to react like that to her and it’s an indication of something not being right. He thinks It’s because she talks loud and won’t accept anything else esp because dd calmed down

I can't believe the posters rushing on to say its not racism ( No words of help I notice!) It is in my opinion and the op should see it as such. My friend is a white Muslim. She certainly doesn't face anything you've described.

@ Bluffysummers no problem. It’s a very difficult and frustrating situation as he cannot see the things that you can, and responds by making excuses/justifying or trivialising MIL behaviours. Unfortunately this happens with a lot of men regardless of heritage as it is their mum, and the primal response is to protect them. I’m sure you are aware but Unfortunately particularly in the Asian cultures mothers are usually very domineering/ and have unhealthy emotional attachments to their sons, and the expectations are the sons will Support them, look after them and put them first over and above their own family needs/wants. Have you considered accessing counselling for him/together so you can talk through some of these deep rooted issues, and start to unpick them?

@ Ddot you are right. Racism affects everyone white, black, assign, duel heritage- everyone can be affected by it.

Definition-a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

The op is littered with racism her opening states "I’m a white Muslim dh is south Asian. We met fell in love and wanted to marry. The diatribe I’ve had from her about this in the beginning was unreal I’ve been called a kafir (disbeliever) because I’m white, told I have no family values and that I’m a gold digger." She goes on to say the mil feeds her child spicy food so she's knows she's Asian and not white. She had a tantrum over them chosing a "disgusting English name". Not allowing her to sit next to other women at a wedding I guess that's not racism either?

I don't understand how anyone can say this isn't racism??

In some instances, the terminology of racism has evolved, e.g. what might have been called racism or a racist attitude is now referred to as race based prejudice.

Many of you are agreeing vigorously, but using different terms.

@Advice79 I really want him to because he basically lets it slide and lets it slide then erupts at her, like with ds’s name. Their relationship hasn’t been the same since because she did it on the 7th day too (ruining the aqeeqa for us). He’s barely spoken to her since but a part of me wonders if that’s what she wants because then she can be the victim. He’s matured a lot since having kids, pre children is when all the wedding stuff and more overtly unkind behaviour was, he’d confront her but there was always an out, and when he’d very kindly and in advance set expectations ie I can’t do xyz this weekend with you because I’m having lunch with dw parents, she said ok fine and then went around to family saying she thought she was dying and collapsed on the floor saying dh had left her all alone in this state.

He’s the only son too, the only child in fact so he’s her only retirement plan (not that she works but in the old age sense).

I do really want him to access some counselling, I had some through the maternity services and actually referred him they did an initial call as he agreed some tools to not get wound up to the point of anger and to help process it all, the waiting list is years apparently. I bought him a self help book for the interim but he does have barriers up especially with this, the insinuation of her abusing dd, it took a lot for me to get through to him that the baby sitting must stop and stop now (in his mind so soon before I gave dd a chance to acclimatise to her) but he finally understood it was neglect. A part of it is the cultural norms a few PPs have referred to and then I think FOG.

It’s very easy for pp upthread to say LTB but if our marriage broke down and we did divorce there’s no way contact could be limited and she’d be straight back in there but without me to take dd away.

White people may not experience institutionalised racism that way that those from a black or Asian culture do, but they can certainly experience racism from individuals. Prejudice is making unfavourable assumptions about a person because of their colour or creed. To me, actually treating someone badly and as lesser because of their colour or creed IS racism. My definition may not suit everybody, but to me prejudice is about opinions and beliefs (usually negative) about a culture and its individual members. When these translate into behaviours that's when it becomes racist. Prejudice leads to racism.

Agree with @Feedingthebirds1 there is a difference between institutionalised racism and racism. Your mil is a vile racist. I'd go nc and protect my children.

@Sometimeswinning

Agree with *@Feedingthebirds1* there is a difference between institutionalised racism and racism. Your mil is a vile racist. I'd go nc and protect my children.

Personally I am Nc, if i happen to see her I’m civil with hello, I’m ok thanks but that’s it. I don’t socialise with her family either, so I abstain from family weddings. Dh is limited contact with his family, he sees certain members and has introduced dd to them, they’ve been fine. But dh doesn’t want NC for the kids (at least not yet) hence his proposed middle ground. 1 hr once a month.

He acknowledges that MIL isn’t capable of looking after children or being alone with them 1:1 but he thinks DDs reaction to her is that MIL speaks loud and is shrill.

Sorry I have read your were nc but in my head that means completely ghosting. I'd guess it's really difficult for your dh. It's the right thing to do for his family but she's his mother. He's probably desperate to make it work. I have a family member who is nc with his mum. He literally has no-one else in the world now but our family who he is married into.

@Bluffysummers It’s a shame about the waiting list but at least he may be open to the idea of counselling. That is the hardest part, and it may take a really long time for him to see and realise the environment he has been raised in is abusive. It took me a very long time to see this and call my own family out on their prejudices, and their behaviour. My opinions were classed as “ Gorafied”- (Opinions of a white persons heritage not Asian). Also within the culture it is so normalised to accept your perceived responsibilities to your parents and the community, and doing something for yourself is seen as selfish. It’s embedded and woven into the fabric of the society and your identity. It is very hard to see past that and that sense of responsibility. You are discouraged from seeking any help with issues outside of the family as there is a sense of shame attached to talking to an outsider about martial/family issues and problems.

There are some areas where you can self refer or refer via GP to talking therapies. It is worth going on a waiting list. It may be worth looking into therapists that may have an understanding of the cultural aspects as well. Whereabouts in the country are you based?

I’ve had issues with my MIL (she is African) not to the same degree at all, and my husband couldn’t see passive aggressive behaviours either for a number of years and it was explained away as “it wasn’t meant like that”, trivialising it, saying it’s not important let’s move on without addressing the actual problems etc. Over the years and with various counselling sessions and as the kids have grown he recognised it, and saw it more and more and called his mum/sisters/dad out on their behaviours and since then they behave themselves and know where the boundaries are, and I know he always has my back now which helps significantly. It’s taken time but we are there now. I’m sorry you are going through this. I know how heartbreaking it is.

At the end of the day it's still his mam. You will have to sit down and work some compromise out. MIL must not be left alone with your child, not because I think she is a danger but because I think she may get in her head about you

I've never read an actual definition of racism. I just thought it was any unpleasant behaviour towards people of a different race by another.
I didn't realize the definition includes feeling superior.

I've got a 6ft blonde friend who looks a lot like princess Diana living in China. She's had all sorts of extraordinary behaviour from Chinese People cross streets spitting at her... pushing her.. stroking her hair! Etc etc

To gazing at her and asking for photos!

If dh deceives you again and she arrives at your door you simply gather up the dc and go out.

That’s exactly it @Advice79!

I’m glad the thread has calmed down a bit now, I appreciate its emotive, it is for me too but some of the comments and allegations made on the thread are pretty nasty and of course untrue.

I’m having real trouble getting into DHs head that there is a very real reason when dd is so vocal in her dislike for MIL. All he’s saying it oh welll she calmed down and then showed her a teddy. He’s just not getting it. Does anyone have any suggestions, I’m really trying

Those saying it is racist, very clearly do not understand racism. I’m sure they’ll shout of course they do and it is racist but the more they do the more they show why racism remains a big problem in Britain. Please educate yourself on what racism is.

OP, I’m afraid, and I’m sure you know there is deep, deep bigotry in some cultures and religions not just the Islamic culture, of course. I know it must be extremely difficult for you and your husband. Particularly you because sometimes family and cultural honour trumps just about everything.

It’s good that your husband is onboard. You’ll have the be wise person in how the both of you manoeuvre out of these. Sometimes these things can turn very, very ugly.

Hopefully it all works out for your better In sha'Allah.

Teddy cam

@Ddot

Teddy cam

No need for cams as all contact was stopped after the 4 afternoons, or 3.5 to be precise. The first 2 afternoons were attributable to it being new esp as dd would settle for periods which is why dh is struggling. She’d not seen her for 6+ months before today and never met ds until today

Those saying it is racist, very clearly do not understand racism.

I am really hoping for you to explain your definition. Genuinely. I believe there is a blanket term for it. Anyone who is prejudice towards someone because of their skin colour is racist. I believe it is actually you who does not understand it. I am, however always open to learning.