School mother smells of alcohol

[Curiousaboutthoughts]

NC for this as my usual account is pretty revealing. There’s a mother at school - I really like her, she’s fun and her children are great. However, several times I have now noticed that she absolutely STINKS of stale alcohol during the school run. I guess I just want to know peoples thoughts about this. I can’t really do anything and I’m not trying to be judgemental (honest!) but it’s hard to connect the part of me which really likes her to the part of me that finds this off-putting. My parents are both alcoholics so I am biased though.

@NoSquirrels makes a really important point. What is a "good parent"? Who gets to determine where that line is? I can honestly say that of all parents I've come into contact with through my work who have been emotionally abusive or neglectful resulting in their DC being on Child Protection plans or even removed, in the majority of cases it is not deliberate. In most cases it was clear that they loved their DC and were doing their best, but their best wasn't good enough and the children were suffering as a result. Often the parents were in denial about the impact of their own difficulties, choices or behaviour on their DC and needed a lot of support to recognise this. IME this is often the case when it comes to problem drinking. It's easier to believe that your drinking doesn't impact on your parenting, or that your DP's drinking doesn't impact on your DC, than it is to face up to the enormity of the problem.

@kittensinthekitchen

There's no such thing as being a good parent whilst having an alcohol dependency.

I know many people on MN will disagree with that, due to their own experiences, but I stand by it.

I agree. As someone who has several family members with alcohol and substance abuse, there is no way someone with an addiction is a good parent. No matter how functional they are.

@PurpleDaisies

Yes, really. I’m a teacher. When I’ve had concerns about parents I’ve discussed them with the safeguarding person. That’s a totally appropriate thing to do. You don’t think a parent stinking of alcohol on the school run is concerning?

No, and its not a safeguarding issue, good grief

@123usernamesilly

Obvious stinking of alcohol is not good and I’m against it! But look she didn’t do anything bad or she didn’t put her kids at any risk. Maybe she does have a problem but as long as she is a good mother then it’s her problem and we shouldn’t intervene in any way

Agree

No, and its not a safeguarding issue, good grief

Nobody knows if it is or isn't.
In isolation, maybe not.
OP isn't going to be deciding if it is or is not. She is going to speak to the people who are responsible for safeguarding children and let them decide.
Maybe she's wrong, no harm done. Maybe she's not.

It’s interesting that so many people are adamant she didn’t put her kids at risk. How do you know?

Just because they didn’t come to harm this time, how do you know she didn’t nearly set the pan on fire at breakfast or nearly misjudge the speed of traffic crossing the road?

How do you know? You don’t. Neither does the OP.

That’s the point of safeguarding being everyone’s responsibility- it’s often the little things that add together to make the full picture because no-one is there to witness everything.

@Zilla1

It takes a village, to turn a blind eye then run to social media and blame the family, the neighbours and social services when anything bad happens.

Ain't that the truth!

@Zilla1 Spot on!!

@Cakelover17

She may just drink when her children are in bed asleep, is that really worth dragging social services into her life? Do you have any other concerns about her children? Adults are allowed to drink alcohol, so if there’s no concerns about her children other than your own experience I wouldn’t be contacting the safe guarding officer or whatever.

As for her triggering you, just distance yourself from her, you don’t need to be friends and from what you’ve said it doesn’t sound like she’s being an asshole or anything? Unless there’s a big drip feed coming.

By all means fail her kids if you want to have it on your conscience that this mother may be struggling and really wished she could just have some support! ‘Mind your own business’ attitudes fail children! It’s like Victoria Climbié and baby P and so many more, how they started. Please please please, stop failing children!

@NoSquirrels

It’s really not anyones business, from what you are saying she is a good mother, kids are well dressed and healthy and always on time. They agents harmed at all.

You don’t know that.

Why would people report her?? She hasn’t done anything wrong.

Because once you get to the stage of drinking or alcohol dependence that people smell it on you during the school run you aren’t using alcohol in a manner that’s likely to cause no harm to your children eventually. Neglect isn’t just extreme. An alcohol dependence usually progresses.

If the mother doesn’t have a problem nothing negative will happen. If she does, positive change may happen.

Thank you for sharing your insight. I agree with what you said. I’m sorry that you’ve had to live through that.

It’s not ‘reporting the mother’ that matters, but expressing concerns about the child. Someone who would disagree with sharing concerns will need to have training about how safeguarding is EVERYONE’s responsibility.

By all means fail her kids if you want to have it on your conscience that this mother may be struggling and really wished she could just have some support!
‘Mind your own business’ attitudes fail children! It’s like Victoria Climbié and baby P and so many more, how they started.
Please please please, stop failing children!

This is exactly right.
There were so many parts to these deaths, so many small clues as to what was really going on for them. Each one on their own, in isolation, didn't add up to abuse. Put them all together and you have the death of abused children.
All the decisions made by social services, the courts, etc, are backed up by information gathered by all agencies involved with the families. Changes made after the 2 afore mentioned deaths mean schools, housing, health, police, etc, are consulted and their information gained before social services decide which path to take.
The safeguarding lead of a school needs to know something like "mum smelt of alcohol on more than one occasion" to be able to pass it on if ever there were other concerns.

Imagine a child goes to A&E with a possible non accidental injury. Hospital report it to police & social care as they are duty bound to do. Social care make their investigations. School say no, no issues here, kids are well presented and parents engage. Because they've not been notified of a potential issue. Social care close the investigation.
The week after the child dies of a non accidental injury. All hell breaks loose on social media and the press. Where were social care?? Where were the school?? How could they let this happen??

THEY, school & other agencies, don't let it happen, its those parents and other people that think it's anything to do with them, or don't want to rock the boat, that have let it happen.

Always report your concerns. If they're not justified it will go no where. But they could help build a picture, because believe it or not, child abusers don't follow a stereotype. They are standing in the playground with you, at soft play, at school assemblies. They have well dressed children, they appear to be loving parents. The stark reality is YOU don't know and you shouldn't decide. There are trained professionals to make those decisions but they can't make them with no information.

@Zilla1

It takes a village, to turn a blind eye then run to social media and blame the family, the neighbours and social services when anything bad happens.

This is spot on!

OP, I haven't rtft but only your comments. Since you seem worried about who to speak to, and have concerns about anonymity I just wanted to say that most areas have a Multi Agency Safeguarding Hub to whom you could report your concerns directly. That is who the school would report your concerns to but you could do it directly instead. They would then contact the school to discuss the report and decide on next steps.

I honestly can't believe the number of people on here would would turn a blind eye to this btw, you are doing the right thing.

No, and its not a safeguarding issue, good grief

So you’re saying you know better than the teachers and social workers posting on this thread, @velvet24?

Of course it's not ok. The amount she would have drunk the night before in order to still smell of it the next day would be a lot.
I guess you don't know what's happening at home, but that's why you must report it so someone else CAN investigate.
I've sat in on enough child protection cases to say that it does need to be reported to SS. It may be that this is added to other info. Or if may be fine.

@JeffThePilot

No, and its not a safeguarding issue, good grief

So you’re saying you know better than the teachers and social workers posting on this thread, @velvet24?

I would not rush to tell someone its a safeguarding issue no, as she is probably a perfectly good parent?

I wanted to come back and update this thread so that everyone who was against raising a concern hears this:

the situation escalated dramatically, in the most awful way and everybody who advised to raise it with the school was correct. I now firmly believe it’s always correct to voice these concerns before they become insurmountable and the worst happens.

everyone who said this was not my business/the mother was fine etc was wrong. Please, please always report these issues.

Curiousaboutthoughts so sorry. What happened? I hope everyone is ok. This has given me food for thought xx

I read the thread at the time and was shocked that people thought this was not a safaguarding matter. Surely its better to express a concern and for it to be nothing than to ignore it and then feel guilty afterward if sometheing dreadful does happen

Oh no @Curiousaboutthoughts. I’d not seen this thread until now but it’s mind boggling that people think a parent drinking so much they stink of it on the school run, and while being in charge of small children, is NOT a serious issue.

I hope the children are OK?

Just out of interest, did you report it at the time or did you decide not to due to responses on this thread?

Not implying in anyway that what has happened could have been prevented. Even if concerns had been raised just a few months ago, it’s doubtful much could have been done, she could just have said she’d stop and hidden it better.

I reported a while ago now, and it prevented things from being quite as bad as they could have been, although the result was still a near fatal catastrophe and things have escalated dramatically, serious mental health issues involved etc. I can’t really say any more than that but again I wanted to stress the importance of involving other people/trusting gut instincts and getting involved when people say it’s not your business, especially when small children are involved.

Well done op x

@Curiousaboutthoughts does this mum drive on the school run?
Are you certain the smell is alcohol and are there any signs she is under the influence?

Well done op - the right call.

Well done @Curiousaboutthoughts better safe than sorry