Page 10 | DNA surprises!

Hydrate · 15/02/2022 22:20

Hi @lynfordthecrab

If the 1st cousin's father is living, your sister could purchase a dna kit and get the cousin to ask him to test.

NatashaBedwouldbenice · 15/02/2022 22:28

There is no amount of centimorgans that conclusively indicates a First Cousin.

Isahlo · 15/02/2022 22:29

So could it be that your father, isn’t related to his family. And you are related to your dad. Or that the other uploadee’s have a similar thing when there is someone else adopted?
I don’t match to my paternal family on ancestry because my dad and my aunt (his sister) are adopted.
My parents are 100% biologically my parents.

DogInATent · 15/02/2022 22:30

Her DNA did not match our DF (who is no longer with us) but did match DM
Unless DF and DM have had the same DNA test done, this statement is completely misleading and could cause confusion.

When you're matching DNA from "sides" of the family, you have to consider that the error may be in the other samples. How do you know that the DNA reference you have on DF's side isn't the one that has the mismatched relationship?

DF may be your DF for both you and your DS, and it's someone else who's the cuckoo.

So my DS is big on drawing up the family tree, which she has done very successfully back to the 1500s.
Chances of getting back much beyond 1800 with any degree of accuracy/reliability are very unlikely. It's possible for a few family lines, but these are unusual.

EmmaH2022 · 15/02/2022 22:31

[quote lynfordthecrab]@AcrossthePond55 my sister has been in contact with this cousin for over a year now. She only lives about 12 miles from me (the cousin), she even got her mum to do a DNA so we could discount cousins maternal side from the equation.
there are also a lot of links as to how her paternal uncles and my mother could know each other.
My sister did ask my mother last year when it first came to light and she muttered something about "what good is it bringing it up now?" and changed the subject so she knows something[/quote]
I am finding this quite confusing

So your mum knew the worms were going to be emerging

Is it that she is not bothered if you find out?

My gut reaction is not to trouble her but if she was prepared for this, maybe she will be unbothered...but then she would have told you before your sister went looking?

I'm inclined to let sleeping dogs lie.

EmmaH2022 · 15/02/2022 22:32

Also, where has the DNA from your parents come from?

DCadult · 15/02/2022 22:44

NC for this. I am a donor conceived adult in my late 40s who found my donor through commercial DNA testing, and I do searches for others from their DNA results (donor conceived, adoptees, what we call NPEs which is people born to a different parent than expected often due to an affair).

OP, depending on your age (which is completely unclear from your posts, but you did say you were born in the early years of the IVF era which might suggest early 80s) you and your sister could be donor conceived and your parents could have asked for the same donor. If you are indeed what I would consider young (born in the 1980s or later) this is very possible as sperm was routinely frozen by then and people often asked for the same donor using retained samples. If you are born before the IVF era (1970s or earlier) this would be much less likely. Certainly if you were born in the 1950s, 1960s etc, they weren't freezing samples back then, of course donors could hang around for years.

I appreciate that you don't want to ask your mum if she has had an affair, had fertility treatment etc. But I'm not sure you can prevent your sister asking those questions, and it seems she is determined to do so. You said that in your opinion your dad was your dad, so hopefully there won't be a huge issue between you and your mum going forward. Either way, you can't unlearn what you have found out so far and your sister is clearly going to continue with her research. Very best of luck that your journey going forward isn't too rocky!

markusdam · 15/02/2022 22:45

Ancestry dna test work by testing your own saliva sample and match you roughly to where in the world you are most likely to come from and also match you to other people who share dna.

It will not say this is your maternal matches and this is your paternal matches.

You have to look at each Mach and see if your recognised names or people in their tree.

I don’t honestly think that you can say that you and your sister are not your fathers children just because no one on ancestry has matched with you.

AFP10 · 15/02/2022 22:45

Given that you say you're too old for IVF, sperms donation etc to be possible then either they used a known sperm donor or, and most probable, your Father was adopted.

DanielRicciardosSmile · 15/02/2022 22:48

It's interesting how on these DNA test threads, the OPs always ignore any request for centimorgan results.

EmmaH2022 · 15/02/2022 22:52

@markusdam

Ancestry dna test work by testing your own saliva sample and match you roughly to where in the world you are most likely to come from and also match you to other people who share dna.

It will not say this is your maternal matches and this is your paternal matches.

You have to look at each Mach and see if your recognised names or people in their tree.

I don’t honestly think that you can say that you and your sister are not your fathers children just because no one on ancestry has matched with you.

Interesting, this is part of my confusion but I assumed there must be actual DNA samples available for such a conclusion to be reached.

DCadult · 15/02/2022 22:53

@AFP10

Given that you say you're too old for IVF, sperms donation etc to be possible then either they used a known sperm donor or, and most probable, your Father was adopted.

Assisted conception with anonymous donated sperm was happening in London in the 1940s. I know several donor conceived people in the UK in their 60s. IVF came much later.

Of course, if OP is in her 80s she can probably confidently rule out donor sperm (I suspect she's much younger and at the moment there are several possible explanations that she can't rule out).

Haffiana · 15/02/2022 22:58

I am puzzled. Op has a sister who is an amazing Geneology Expert with a Geneology Degree who can even Map their Family Tree CENTURIES back to the 1500s.

So why the hell can't the sister work out who their own father is?

Why don't they both ask a proper expert?

Isahlo · 15/02/2022 23:02

I’ve just sent this to my mum who said in their town in the seventies there were three brothers who were their either the fathers great uncles or second cousins children biologically, but they were brought up by the dad. Apparently not uncommon and in the same village in Merseyside there was a lady who had sex with her sisters husband twice and then gave the babies to her sister.
Strange times, but poss your thing?

markusdam · 15/02/2022 23:10

@EmmaH2022
I did a dna test. I knew my maternal
Line but not my fathers. I have no clue to any of my paternal matches.

I don’t understand why she can’t work out if one of the uncles is their father or not?

The
Mum 100% does know what’s going on as she was their at their conception!

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 15/02/2022 23:13

Interesting situation @lynfordthecrab!

I think that you could say to your mother that there could be a good reason for bringing it up now, with all the genetic testing for disease conditions etc. It doesn't matter if you don't have any history of inheritable diseases - it's still good to know just in case where your DNA came from. That might get her to let your sister (and/or you) know who your biological father is. Also tell her there's no shame, you're not bothered, but you'd like to know for the sake of the medical side of it.

LoveFall · 15/02/2022 23:13

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/babes-in-the-woods-identified-1.6352438

This was in our news today. I remember hearing about these two young boys for years.

DNA from users of Ancestry etc. ca do a great deal of good.

It must be a huge relief for the family.

Here is another on solved using public DNA databases.

www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-the-monday-edition-1.6350961/how-a-genealogist-helped-solve-the-murder-of-a-girl-from-nearly-60-years-ago-1.6350962

EmmaH2022 · 15/02/2022 23:18

[quote markusdam]@EmmaH2022
I did a dna test. I knew my maternal
Line but not my fathers. I have no clue to any of my paternal matches.

I don’t understand why she can’t work out if one of the uncles is their father or not?

The
Mum 100% does know what’s going on as she was their at their conception![/quote]
Sorry, I'm confused which bit of this is for me.

Of course their mum knows but what I meant was, did she know what the sister was looking for? Like, she just think there was a little family tree project going on?

I don't understand how any of this works without an DNA sample and am not clear how they have their dad's DNA sample...or anyone else unless they are registered with that site.

BestKnitterInScotland · 15/02/2022 23:32

You do not need parental samples.

I have tested my DNA. No close relatives have tested. My nearest match is a second cousin - our grandparents were siblings.

When you test on Ancestry, you are presented with a list of matches. Husband has just tested too. He has 395 fourth cousins or closer. His "best" match shares 212 centimorgans of DNA. We are unsure whether this person fits in on the maternal or paternal side of his tree - and Ancestry doesn't tell you. This person either does not have a tree on Ancestry, or has made it private. Once you start sorting your matches and identify the ones you DO recgonise as maternal/paternal the site will suggest where unknown people may fit in, depending on cM and trees.

It is not a paternity test scenario where you get a result along the lines of "John Jones is the father of Sarah Jones with 99.5% certainty". Ancestry just looks at your DNA code and someone else's DNA code and tells you how much if it you have in common. It's up to you to do the rest.

EmmaH2022 · 15/02/2022 23:35

@BestKnitterInScotland

You do not need parental samples.

I have tested my DNA. No close relatives have tested. My nearest match is a second cousin - our grandparents were siblings.

When you test on Ancestry, you are presented with a list of matches. Husband has just tested too. He has 395 fourth cousins or closer. His "best" match shares 212 centimorgans of DNA. We are unsure whether this person fits in on the maternal or paternal side of his tree - and Ancestry doesn't tell you. This person either does not have a tree on Ancestry, or has made it private. Once you start sorting your matches and identify the ones you DO recgonise as maternal/paternal the site will suggest where unknown people may fit in, depending on cM and trees.

It is not a paternity test scenario where you get a result along the lines of "John Jones is the father of Sarah Jones with 99.5% certainty". Ancestry just looks at your DNA code and someone else's DNA code and tells you how much if it you have in common. It's up to you to do the rest.

I feel as if you have just explained why do you DO need samples of the individuals involved in order to get a proper answer.

sleepyhoglet · 15/02/2022 23:36

We are all now heavily invested!

DogInATent · 15/02/2022 23:37

I don't understand how any of this works without an DNA sample and am not clear how they have their dad's DNA sample...or anyone else unless they are registered with that site.

They don't have the father's DNA sample. What they have is an absence of matches that on paper ought to have a degree of common genetic material. But without knowing what those distant expected matches are or how reliable the paper trail is on the expected relationship it's impossible to agree or disagree with the OP.

For example, if you discover you don't share any DNA inheritance markers with your cousin on your father's side, does that mean that your father is not your father, or that your cousin's father is not their father, or that your father wasn't his brother's biological brother? Or could any one or all of those be true?

The OP still hasn't explained (perhaps doesn't know why this is important) how they've ruled out their apparent DF. Which supposed relatives on DFs side of the family do they share no matches with?

Ikeatears · 15/02/2022 23:39

Some of the comments on here are quite soul destroying.
I am not a dirty secret to be kept. I have a right to know my genetic history, my family medical history, my ethnicity.
If my 'parents' weren't willing to give me that information, I have a right to take DNA test and find out as much information as possible for myself.
This is not a 'Pandora's Box' or a 'let sleeping dogs lie' situation. I can't force people to tell me the truth but I am allowed to want to know the truth about ME, without being made to feel guilty.
What good will it do? It may give me peace, it may save my life in terms of medical issues.
@lynfordthecrab you have every right to feel the way that you do. I have a sister who feels as you do. I understand the worry of upset but remember, neither you or your sister asked for this or caused it. I hope your mother chooses to be honest.
We are nobody's dirty little secret. Everyone is entitled to keep their own secrets but we are equally entitled to be true about who we are and explore our genetic history.

BestKnitterInScotland · 15/02/2022 23:40

A proper answer to what though?

Yes, the only way of getting a 100% cast iron answer to "are you my parent" is by testing the parent and the child through a paternity testing service. Which isn't Ancestry.

What has happened in the OP's situation is that they have tested a few family members on the maternal side which all fit together and match with each other, exactly as expected.

Then they have this "rogue" match which matches with her and her sister, but is not matching with her mum or other relatives of her mother's. So the obvious conclusion is that this particular match is through her/their father. OP is a bit vague from there on in about how much DNA she and her sister share with this unknown woman, and why they are so sure that she is a cousin - a child of a sibling of their father's.

But it is entirely possible to identify a deceased or unknown parent by testing DNA of other family members and running the numbers.

DonorConceivedMe · 15/02/2022 23:51

A thousand times this, @Ikeatears.

It’s truly astonishing how people think it’s ok to treat donor conceived people/those conceived from an affair like this. Our needs and feelings are apparently irrelevant. Our only duty is not to rock the boat. These comments always come out when these issues are raised.