Page 9 | To have hoped the teacher would respect our wishes

Sixmonthcruise · 2022-02-15T13:16:13+00:00

Dd is 13/year 9. Firstly, I know it must be difficult for schools when dealing with and addressing 1500+ pupils but one of her teachers is really getting my back up. She has sent me several emails over recent weeks regarding dd’s school work but when she mentions my dd it is always in a non-binary way (ie they/them). I have replied back a few times to state that dd is NOT non-binary and she wishes to be addressed as she/her. However, she never replies back after my requests and with each subsequent email still refers to dd as they/them. I know it may not be a big thing for many but it is really annoying me. Dd does not wish to be non-binary (she has no issue with anyone who wants to be), she is more than happy with the sex she was born into and loves being female. She recognises and happily accepts she is she/her. Would you be happy for your child to be continually addressed as them/they when you have specifically asked for the teacher not to?

Canhearthemice · 15/02/2022 19:59

I'm a teacher and my DD has received a commendation with them and their. I totally agree with you. It's unacceptable and ignoring my DDs preferences.

Canhearthemice · 15/02/2022 20:00

As a teacher myself, I think is incredibly of the teacher.

Sunshineandalltherainbows · 15/02/2022 20:02

I remember teaching a student maths at college. They wanted to be known as a boy and said they wanted to be called a certain male name. The student's parents went absolutely mental at parents evening at all the teachers (pastoral lead had been heavily involved so wasn't a surprise to them). I used they/them always from then on as I couldn't do right from wrong.
Is there any wonder we are seeing teachers leave the profession in increasingly large numbers.

Furrydogmum · 15/02/2022 20:04

Yabu. Our email and text system allows cut and paste of a multi recipient message but the system isn't sophisticated enough to be able to separate the gender or personal choice of each recipient, so the names can be merged, but the reference to the pupil within the message will be they etc..

Fairislefandango · 15/02/2022 20:07

Before misgendering was a thing it was acceptable to use they in place of her or him.

When you're generalising or referring to a person whose sex you don't know, yes. Not when you're emailing a parent about their daughter, to whom you are referring by name! 'Please could you ask Emily to bring their PE kit in on Fridays' - nope.

Fairislefandango · 15/02/2022 20:11

I feel rather sorry for the teacher.

Do you? I've been a teacher for over 25 years. I have never found it hard to refer to girls or boys. Nor do I find it hard to refer to the several trans/non-binary students I've taught in recent years by the pronouns I'm required to use for them. Referring to students you know as 'they' in an email where you are already using their name is totally unnecessary.

lalafam · 15/02/2022 20:13

Yes this would annoy me too. If this was a non binary student being referred to as 'he/she' people would be angry

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/02/2022 20:14

Before misgendering was a thing it was acceptable to use they in place of her or him. I think it’s searching for something to be offended about in this instance.

I can only go on my own experiences, but as I remember it, before it became common for 'they' to be used as a 'preferred pronoun', it was almost always he/she. Mass school letters to parents were always about 'your son/daughter' and asking if 'he/she' could do something.

I seem to be in a minority, but I've been a native English speaker for over 40 years and I've never known it to be 'a thing' whatsoever to refer to a specific, known individual as 'they' - even in these modern days of multiple pronouns.

Sentences like "Can you ask Dad if they can get some bread on their way home from work" or "My sister has their graduation ceremony next week and I'm really looking forward to seeing them in their cap and gown" are just not a part of my language that I would ever recognise as in any way normal.

If I heard somebody saying anything like that, I'd assume that he/she was not a native speaker, and was probably getting confused with different pronoun rules in his/her own native language.

SockFluffInTheBath · 15/02/2022 20:16

@Fairislefandango

Before misgendering was a thing it was acceptable to use they in place of her or him.

When you're generalising or referring to a person whose sex you don't know, yes. Not when you're emailing a parent about their daughter, to whom you are referring by name! 'Please could you ask Emily to bring their PE kit in on Fridays' - nope.

If I was Emily’s mum I’d probably not even notice that (before this thread!) or be offended by it.

Jvg33 · 15/02/2022 20:16

Probably copy and pasted email template! Makes it easier and faster to not have to skim the email and change the pronouns!

SockFluffInTheBath · 15/02/2022 20:18

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll see that would be normal to me. Not always a deliberate they/them but definitely sometimes and I’d really not even notice it. Maybe it’s a regional thing or some other demographic split thing.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/02/2022 20:22

Yabu. Our email and text system allows cut and paste of a multi recipient message but the system isn't sophisticated enough to be able to separate the gender or personal choice of each recipient, so the names can be merged, but the reference to the pupil within the message will be they etc..

But why choose 'they', if you've addressed it with reference to an individual child's name? Why not 'he/she' (or even 'he/she/they') in the actual text?

To be honest, that software sounds really primitive and like the original creator did a really sloppy half-arsed job. If they couldn't (be bothered to) program it to pick up a sex marker from another database cell, they would have been better not bothering at all with the option to personalise with the name and just leaving it as 'your child' - that would sound much less weird.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/02/2022 20:23

SockFluffInTheBath

I can only assume that it must be a regional difference, then. I've lived around the Midlands and never heard this at all.

Phormiumjester · 15/02/2022 20:24

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

Before misgendering was a thing it was acceptable to use they in place of her or him. I think it’s searching for something to be offended about in this instance.

I can only go on my own experiences, but as I remember it, before it became common for 'they' to be used as a 'preferred pronoun', it was almost always he/she. Mass school letters to parents were always about 'your son/daughter' and asking if 'he/she' could do something.

I seem to be in a minority, but I've been a native English speaker for over 40 years and I've never known it to be 'a thing' whatsoever to refer to a specific, known individual as 'they' - even in these modern days of multiple pronouns.

Sentences like "Can you ask Dad if they can get some bread on their way home from work" or "My sister has their graduation ceremony next week and I'm really looking forward to seeing them in their cap and gown" are just not a part of my language that I would ever recognise as in any way normal.

If I heard somebody saying anything like that, I'd assume that he/she was not a native speaker, and was probably getting confused with different pronoun rules in his/her own native language.

Born & bred to English parents in the North West and I've just said the cap & gown one to my DH and he couldn't detect which bit of it I thought might be odd to his ears. So maybe it's regional. I definitely say looking forward to seeing them in their cap & gown.

SockFluffInTheBath · 15/02/2022 20:25

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

SockFluffInTheBath

I can only assume that it must be a regional difference, then. I've lived around the Midlands and never heard this at all.

Ooh me too! Maybe I’m just a bit vacant with this sort of thing

Branleuse · 15/02/2022 20:32

@MadMadMadamMim

My DD teaches. They have been informed by SLT that all student communication must be neutral now as in they/them.

This is because of numerous complaints from parents who wish their female daughter to be referred to as he/him or they/them. And also the odd parent whose son now wishes to be she/her. I imagine it has come as guidance from the Education Department and certainly no school would ever now be able to say Don't be utterly ridiculous, Sandra. You aren't a boy, and we're not referring to you as 'he' just because you wish you had a penis which is basically what they would have done when I was in school.

They/them is probably coming from the powers above. So by all means fuck about wasting the teacher's time by repeated emails saying you want your dd referred to as she - rather than dealing with the actual issue and the reason the teacher has to keep emailing.

And the teacher will keep ignoring you if they have been instructed by their senior management that they have to send neutral emails.

Exactly. It does not mean the teacher thinks your kid is non binary and even if your kid did identify as non binary, using they them pronouns wouldnt even mean the teacher believed in any of it. My kid does prefer they them pronouns and some of the teachers do use them and others dont always remember. Ive had meetings with her teachers before and weve mentioned the NB thing and the pronouns and ive been clear with the school that we are doing a watch and wait approach, and are ok with the pronouns and the name change but definitely did not want it to go any further than that. Any teacher or professional ive spoken to about it has been in agreement with that. I think if you cause a nuisance with something as innocuous as them using a gender neutral pronoun for your daughter, then it just looks like they cant bloody win whatever they do. How the fuck do you expect every teacher in a secondary school to remember the gender identity of every kid they teach? Id much rather them just use gender neutral terms than have to remember them all individually. Unless youre suggesting that this teacher is obliged to put her own career on the line or take more shit than is necessary from annoying kids and their annoying parents. She didnt ask for any of this im sure.

SockFluffInTheBath · 15/02/2022 20:39

Lookit!

MadMadMadamMim
My DD teaches. They have been informed

DD then ‘they’ not ‘she’, it’s not just me

Sazzlepop22 · 15/02/2022 20:39

@Fatmax22

It would piss me off too, as long as DD wanted to be addressed by her chosen "pronouns" identifying as female she has that right. Doesn't anyone else see the irony here?

This

MadMadMadamMim · 15/02/2022 20:52

@SockFluffInTheBath

Lookit!

MadMadMadamMim
My DD teaches. They have been informed

DD then ‘they’ not ‘she’, it’s not just me

@SockFluffInTheBath

Ah...that's me typing too fast and not reading for grammar. I wasn't referring to DD as 'they'. I'd have said 'She' has been informed if it was just her.

I meant (at her school) THEY have been informed...I was talking about all staff in general.

Sorry!

StarsAreWishes · 15/02/2022 20:56

@SockFluffInTheBath

Lookit!

MadMadMadamMim
My DD teaches. They have been informed

DD then ‘they’ not ‘she’, it’s not just me

“They” meaning the DD and her colleagues. Not just DD individually. So a perfect example of how “they” is plural.

StarsAreWishes · 15/02/2022 20:57

(Sorry, cross post … slowly … while children relate “interesting stories” )

SockFluffInTheBath · 15/02/2022 21:12

@MadMadMadamMim I’ll go back the naughty step for pronoun mixers

FartnissEverbeans · 15/02/2022 21:20

I really doubt this is anything to do with trans rights!

This is a copy-paste job so the teacher doesn’t have to change the standard email she’s sending home.

OP, if you respond to this you are going to sound ridiculous

Grida · 15/02/2022 21:21

Is she a good teacher?

Applesarenice · 15/02/2022 21:29

Surely it’s just a template email and she doesn’t have time to change for every child? You’ve made a bit of a jump there