To ask you to explain non binary to me (genuine question)

[crochetmonkey74]

I have a new non binary person on my team at work (I am a manager)
They present as female-very much so in dress and grooming, they have a very feminine name too ,they have told me that they are heterosexual and live with their partner. However they want to be known as 'they' and the pronoun 'MX'
I am happily doing all this, I believe everyone should be comfortable and I will address people how they wish to be addressed.
I'm a teacher so my new member of the team is continually being misgendered by the students (due to the incongruity of appearance and pronoun) we have other non binary more androgynous looking staff who are not misgendered.
My new staff member is a nice person but they are very aware of correcting people, and have already complained (not about me)
I'm keen to do this right and not offend but also despite trying to read around the issue, I cant find much about non binary females who present in a feminine aspect.
This is not a bait thread or a stealth moan. It is a genuine question. Anyone got any experience with this?

@FloBot7

You've all just reminded me that when I was at school in Ireland we addressed our teachers as "Teacher" in the classroom. When I was a nanny in France they did similar (Maitresse/ Maitre) though because they have male and female words for professions it would still be an issue there.

Maybe one could adopt something like 'Sensei'

@FatFilledTrottyPuss

Non binary people recognise that there are stereotypes associated with biological sex. They feel that these stereotypes don’t fit who they are as a person so they have decided that they are neither male or female instead of realising that stereotypes are rubbish and don’t define any of us unless we let them. Remember back in the olden days of yore when girls were brought up to believe we could be or do anything despite our sex? It’s the opposite of that.

The rest of us are clearly basic binary bitches who aren't blessed with such gender enlightenment. We conform to every stereotype of our sex

Of the non binary people I know/met all of them, funnily enough, seem to still look like a stereotypical man or woman. Not like they're androgynous or anything like that - which explains why they have to inform everyone in the vicinity that they're actually non binary -_-

I have a question about non-binary people.

If they are non-binary, are they then unary, or (perhaps more likely given the plural form of their chosen pronoun) ternary or quaternary ... or what?

And, further, are non-binary people all the same wrt their '-arity', or are some unary, some ternary, others quaternary, perhaps octary or nonary, etc.? Is there a limit to non-binary -arity? ( Sc. an n such that all n-ary people have an -arity smaller than n?)

Or is this just all a bit silly?

Or is this just all a bit silly?
You've hit the nail on the head.

@TheMarzipanDildo I have just looked up emoji pronouns and the consensus on Reddit is "it's a mental illness".

its all very confusing to me and frankly its one thing for this new teacher to complain about if other staff were not using the correct terms , but honestly moaning about students doing it is silly , they are kids , just kids can they really be expected to consistantly remember not to address as miss or mrs , , is she or should i say they expecting the offending students to be giving a wee talking to every time they slip up and forget ? its a bit silly and so much more confusing than transgender where its not hard at all to use he or she and one doesnt make mistakes because transgender men and women generally look like the sex they identify as .

as for cant explain it as its triggering , but look online ,that just sounds so bloody dramatic , how on earth can it be triggering to explain it , its not like recounting a brutal assault i wouldnt have thought .

i have a fairly rare inner ear disease thats incurable , but when people ask me i do explain to them as most people want to hear these things directly from the person affected , not have to search online . its frustrating i think to want to know something from someone and they just tell you to google it

It's so odd how regressive we are becoming as a society - one would imagine that we would be trying to get away from labels and yet this seems to just encourage an obsession towards labelling.

I so agree @Isitsixoclockalready. All the stereotypes we fought against are alive, kicking and justification for appalling behaviour.

Remember back in the olden days of yore when girls were brought up to believe we could be or do anything despite our sex? It’s the opposite of that.

I don't think it is "the opposite". It's another route to the same end, a different weapon in the same battle against gender stereotypes. We could say, I'm a woman and I can do anything; or we could say, I'm non-binary so I can do anything. I don't mind what weapon people choose as long we're fighting the same battle, and I'm happy to respect someone who is using non-binary to resist gender stereotypes as long they understand that those of us who just call ourselves women are also resisting gender stereotypes.

So to me it's fine that someone can be non-binary and still conform to some gender stereotypes, just as those of us who call ourselves women usually conform to some gender stereotypes but not others. Someone can look and dress like most other people of their own sex but that doesn't mean they conform to all the stereotypes does it? You can wear frills and play football. Saying they're "non-binary" is a different way to make that point.

The OP's colleague is doing something else though. Making students feel guilty about using the wrong pronoun by accident? "Triggered" by middle-aged women in more senior roles? Picking on a colleague who who put up a relevant poster as part of her job because it's for a book by an author who disagrees with her personal political position? This is someone who is using gender ideology for their own reasons. (And is batshit and unprofessional too)

Saying they're "non-binary" is a different way to make that point.

No it's not. The very concept of non binary demands that others are cis and stereotypes are generally correct-that is what defines them as non binary.
I suggest you look further into the concept. The ideology is very clear.

@Isitsixoclockalready

It's so odd how regressive we are becoming as a society - one would imagine that we would be trying to get away from labels and yet this seems to just encourage an obsession towards labelling.

It's horrible, I hate it how backwards we're going

I suggest you look further into the concept. The ideology is very clear.

I have. Not everyone who uses the word swallows the ideology.

Some people who claim they are vegetarian eat bacon.
Maybe even some Christians don't believe in God.
Words mean something. Non binary has a set meaning. Just like lesbian and adult women. If you have a new non sexist non binary you need a new word for it.

I don't think it is "the opposite". It's another route to the same end, a different weapon in the same battle against gender stereotypes. We could say, I'm a woman and I can do anything; or we could say, I'm non-binary so I can do anything. I don't mind what weapon people choose as long we're fighting the same battle, and I'm happy to respect someone who is using non-binary to resist gender stereotypes as long they understand that those of us who just call ourselves women are also resisting gender stereotypes.

This is the issue though.

The entire concept of non-binary is something that only makes sense if we accept that women conform to feminine stereotypes and men conform to masculine stereotypes and only the non-binary people are special and different.

I'm happy to respect someone who is using non-binary to resist gender stereotypes as long they understand that those of us who just call ourselves women are also resisting gender stereotypes.

That applies to zero of the "non binary" people I've ever come across anywhere.

We could say, I'm a woman and I can do anything; or we could say, I'm non-binary so I can do anything

What does it add? Why wouldn't you call yourself a woman unless you bought into the ideology?

We could say, I'm a woman and I can do anything; or we could say, I'm non-binary so I can do anything

But what does “woman” mean? What does “non binary” mean?

If the only meaning of woman is adult human female, then non binary is completely redundant as a concept. Non binary needs “woman” to mean something more - something chock full of regressive stereotypes - in order to have any function at all.

All it means for a hypothetical biologically female “NB person” is “not like the other girls”. And by saying that, the NB person is automatically reducing “the other girls” down to a homogenous collection of outdated tropes that only she (along with other enbies) is cool enough to transcend.

Because at the end of the day, the hypothetical NB person we’re talking about here is still an adult human female. So a word that only means AHF would clearly apply to her. She can’t actually reject her sex; it’s an immutable part of her.

So what she’s (supposedly) rejecting are the stereotypes, or some of them, that go along with being an adult human female. And that means she needs the meaning of “woman” to include all those stereotypes, so that she, in all her NB cool-girl-ness, can demonstrate how different she is.

Regressive stereotype-reifying bullshit.

It's another route to the same end, a different weapon in the same battle against gender stereotypes.

But it isn't battling stereotypes. Stating you are non binary reinforces the binary because non binary can't be a thing without it.

Of course this female teacher is going to get ‘misgendered’.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

@IntermittentParps It’s pretty indicative of working environments in the real world, yes. No walking on eggshells round here. Everyone is upfront, and they do their bit with LGBT celebration days so those lot don’t feel left out. Everyone’s happy.

Have we got a coherent definition of a non-binary person yet? Perhaps with an example of what a binary person looks like?

Perhaps with an example of what a binary person looks like?

Barbie/Ken?

Best I can do

Which funnily enough are each end of the Mermaids gender spectrum infographic used in training schools etc, TheKeatingFive

Gender is an ideology and it has no place in schools. She is doing her students a disservice by telling them not to believe their own eyes, and that she is not female. That's gas lighting and if my children were in your Co workers class and she kept on correcting my child I would be making a complaint. I would not be happy. My child has the right to her belief in sex and I'm saying what she actually and factually sees.