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AIBU?

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Original poster

Who's being a dick here, me or the nursery?

290 replies

Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 21:34

DD is three and hasn't napped at home for over a year - her choice!bBut continued napping at nursery.

Bedtimes were getting significantly worse after nursery nap, and so six months ago I asked them to cut her nap. Nursery said it was hard to keep her awake when all the other kids had their naps and she was just really tired and falling asleep. Fair enough, I asked them to limit the nap instead, which sort of helped for a bit, but then they kept forgetting, and gradually it just stopped working anyway, and we went back to no sleeping till 10/11pm.

So, as DD was due to go up to the pre-school room where there was no naptime anyway, a couple of month's ago I said I really wanted the nap to stop as she wasn't sleeping till 10/11pm, and to prepare her for no nap in the new room. This was a battle with nursery who were not keen but eventually agreed. Was brilliant, bedtimes were quick and easy, DD getting a solid 11/12 hours a night.

She's now started in the pre-school room and...has been napping. Apparently they have story time after lunch and she drops off. I have asked them to keep her awake and explained loads of times that this means she's not sleeping till 10/11pm, and so is losing out on three hours sleep a night for the sake of 45 mins in the afternoon. She's then tired the next day, so even more likely to fall asleep, and so it goes on.

Nursery have basically said if she's falling asleep and calling her name doesn't wake her up, they won't do anything else to rouse her or keep her awake, and won't take her out to do something else at story time. I really do understand their reluctance to wake a tired kid, but it's totally detrimental to her wellbeing as it means she is getting much less sleep.

Would I be unreasonable to really push them on this? Or is this usual nursery policy?

OP posts:
Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 15/02/2022 08:34

Yes I appreciate that a busy weekend could impact Monday. But she had a week off doing nothing a couple of weeks ago with good night sleep and the first day back she napped. So I don't think it's just a busy weekend thing. I really don't know what it is!

OP posts:
Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 15/02/2022 08:35

When they stopped her nap in her old room they said she was totally fine in the afternoon, no issues no grumpiness.

OP posts:
AlandAnna · 15/02/2022 08:36

YANBU, you know your child best. My nursery worked with me when I had the same issue. On the odd occasion my daughter was really tired and they couldn’t keep her awake they just let me know so bedtime wasn’t a battle.

You do deserve an evening as well, sounds like you work hard at home and work!

Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 15/02/2022 08:38

This thread is so half and half I still don't know if I'm being a dick or not Grin

OP posts:
HoppingPavlova · 15/02/2022 08:39

What do you want them to do though? Pinch her every time they see her eyes starting to close? Shake her awake, given that calling her name doesn’t wake her up? You would be raging at these things no doubt. Your only suggestions seem to involve a 1:1 situation to keep her away from the rest of the room and awake which wouldn’t be feasible at any nursery as they would then need to get another head in to maintain ratio. What solutions that are viable are you putting forward?

toomuchlaundry · 15/02/2022 08:44

Maybe she is just finding pre-school element really tiring at the moment.

Bit like when YR can be a shock for some children even though they have been in daycare previously for much longer hours.

Laura0729 · 15/02/2022 08:58

You're not being a dick.

You want the best for your child's well being.

LowlandLucky · 15/02/2022 09:04

What do you want the nursery staff to do to keep her awake ? Should they shout at her, stand her on her feet, put a cold flannel on her face ? If the poor child needs to sleep then she needs to sleep. It may be inconvenient for you but that is life as a parent.

Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 15/02/2022 09:45

It really really isn't about me or my convenience, as I've explained.

Maybe part of the issue is I have no idea what DD's day is like so don't know what to suggest to help - they have tapestry but never use it (I have asked several times about this and get one update on it, then nothing again for months) and we have not been allowed to pick up from the rooms since covid, so they get dropped off and picked up at the entrance, leaving not much time for updates or talks about the day. So all I really get told is DD had a good day, she ate some lunch, and played in the garden - nothing more in depth than that really. They can't even say if she had a nap or not as they aren't sure, or how long it was.

So hopefully if I can have a quick meeting with them I can get a better idea of what her day looks like and can maybe suggest something helpful? I dunno.

OP posts:
Soontobe60 · 15/02/2022 09:48

Personally, I think it’s pretty harsh preventing a 3 year old from napping, especially when they’re in a room with other nappers!
They can’t take her out, as the staffing would be all skewed.

Newuser82 · 15/02/2022 09:51

@OfstedOffred

I call bullshit that a 3 year old who doesnt nap at home is literally falling asleep on the floor every single day.

More likely it suits them to have some kids sleeping so some staff get a break.

If she isnt falling asleep until 10/11pm at night she doesnt need the nap.

I totally agree! My son has just turned three. He still does sleep in the day at hole for about 11/2 -2hrs. He has just started preschool and doesn't sleep there and he can stay awake all day without any issues. Yes he is tired when he gets home and goes to be a bit earlierbut isn't struggling to stay awake so I'm not convinced about this either.
Soontobe60 · 15/02/2022 09:52

@Mehblehfeh

This thread is so half and half I still don't know if I'm being a dick or not Grin
You’re not being a dick, but I do think you’re being a bit unrealistic. It’s one thing keeping your child awake when you’re at home and you can easily give them the attention to distract them - it’s far harder in a nursery setting.
toomuchlaundry · 15/02/2022 09:53

In theory in Early Years setting they should have access to outside when they want (free flow) but it would appear that is not what your DD wants after lunch, she wants/needs a nap.

SartresSoul · 15/02/2022 10:01

I can see both sides. My DS is 3 and he only naps if we’ve had a very busy day and he’s burnt out or if he’s sick. I don’t think your DD would be falling asleep if she didn’t need the sleep, they aren’t forcing her to go to sleep and they’d have to deal with a grumpy toddler if they woke her up which no one wants.

Can obviously see your side with it disrupting her sleep at night so much too. Maybe figure out a way to use up some energy a couple of hours before bedtime and follow a strict bedtime routine to see if it helps?

ChittyBangs · 15/02/2022 10:03

We have tapestry but due to the new EYFS rules it isn't updated as it used to be.
I don't think you'll go wrong with having a meeting so both you and the staff have some understanding of what her day and nights are like.
You can only gain from it tbh.
But you may have to accept that some days she will fall asleep.

nokidshere · 15/02/2022 10:07

Her bedtime is 7/7.30. if I know she's napped I stretch it out to 8.30. Maybe I should make it later? But then it feels wrong to be putting her to bed at 9/10pm.

I would try keeping her bedtime at 7 regardless of whether she has napped or not. By 8;30 she will still be overtired even if she had a 45 min nap at lunchtime. Routine is key.

Chasingaftermidnight · 15/02/2022 10:16

I don’t think you’re being a dick at all. We had this exact issue and our nursery really worked hard with us on it and were very accommodating. It wasn’t in their interests for our son to be coming to nursery exhausted after a crap night’s sleep. I totally understand your problem - it’s awful dealing with a miserable child who’s woken up shattered because they’ve only had 8 hours sleep, and of course they then need a bloody nap if they’ve only had 8 hours sleep - it’s a vicious cycle and hardly rocket science.

And if I’ve understood your OP correctly, there’s no nap time in her current setting? So it isn’t as if all the other children are napping and she’s not.

SeasonFinale · 15/02/2022 10:17

What is her bedtime routine like? Are you waiting for her to get tired before putting her to bed or does she go to bed at a set time? If she gets up do you put her back and tell her she needs to stay in bed. Sometimes the not sleeping in the evening is because the parent(s) are allowing them to stay up or get back up rather than enforcing a bed time. A few days of being strict about getting back into bed or going to bed with lights out etc ca usually sort this out as they get bored lying there.

Plumbear2 · 15/02/2022 10:18

You asked if childminders would find it easier, I'm not sure they would. They have less children but much more time in buggys or cars travelling to activities or picking up older mindess from school. Children easily fall asleep in buggy or car and when it's at the 3pm school pickup that's evenworse then lunchtime.

Crimesean · 15/02/2022 10:36

It's a tricky one - DS is 4 and a half and still wants a nap most days. Bedtime is a bit mad, but he does get to sleep by 20:30/21:00 (if he doesn't nap he gets to sleep around 19:30). He did go through a phase of staying up till ludicrous times like your DD, but after a couple of weeks it sorted itself out.

If he didn't get enough sleep overall I'd look at dropping naps, but he still seems to need one and is a lot happier when he gets a nap. Hopefully he'll have dropped them by September when he starts school!

wishtotravel · 15/02/2022 10:41

You are not being a dick but neither are the nursery. You may be being unrealistic, but it's difficult to say.
you Are possibly right that your daughter needs a reset in her sleep pattern but I think that you need to do that by getting her more rest on the Friday/Saturday/Sunday so you can start the week at nursery fresh and not over tired.
In that way you can be sure that if she were to fall asleep, spontaneously not being put to bed, then it would be down to something other than this sleep cycle.
So my advice would be to use the long weekend and monitor what happens at start of next week

busyeatingbiscuits · 15/02/2022 10:59

You're not being a dick, but some posters who are suggesting nursery need to change their whole routine to prevent one tired child from falling asleep are a bit unrealistic.

They probably have story time after lunch as staff need all the children sitting quietly while they clean up.

Staffing is stretched at lunch time anyway as staff need to take breaks, someone needs to clean up, staff will be putting younger nappers to bed, lots of children need the toilet or nappy changes after they eat, some children will be going home or arriving so staff need to open the door and get children settled.

It's easy to say someone should take her outside or they shouldn't let children sit down after lunch - but when you have one adult to every 8, 10 or even 12 preschool children you are just not going to get 1:1 care.

Even as a childminder, I had "quiet time" after lunch - because, after getting lunch for 3 or 4 children I would then need to clean up, change nappies, set up travel cots and put some of the children to bed. So we'd have half an hour of TV - there's only so much 1 person can do.
I didn't have a spare adult to take one tired child to run around the garden while I did everything else that needed to be done. Sometimes I'd even have lunch myself.

Original poster
Mehblehfeh · 15/02/2022 11:05

It's really useful to hear about how things work in nursery and the difficulties staff face, I understand that they can't just skip off into the garden with DD and leave other kids.

It's so hard as when I'm sat with her for three hours while she can't sleep, and then see how tired she is next day, I feel like shit mum for not 'sticking up' for her more. But I also don't want to be 'that mum' or make things difficult for nursery staff. Arrgh!

OP posts:
cheekyasfish · 15/02/2022 11:08

She's three. She's in pre school. She shouldn't be napping.

I totally understand. A ten minute nap for us is disastrous for bed time

busyeatingbiscuits · 15/02/2022 11:12

@cheekyasfish

She's three. She's in pre school. She shouldn't be napping.

I totally understand. A ten minute nap for us is disastrous for bed time

She doesn't understand that though, she's only 3! She just does what her body needs her to, not what she "should" be doing.
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