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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who's being a dick here, me or the nursery?

290 replies

Mehblehfeh · 14/02/2022 21:34

DD is three and hasn't napped at home for over a year - her choice!bBut continued napping at nursery.

Bedtimes were getting significantly worse after nursery nap, and so six months ago I asked them to cut her nap. Nursery said it was hard to keep her awake when all the other kids had their naps and she was just really tired and falling asleep. Fair enough, I asked them to limit the nap instead, which sort of helped for a bit, but then they kept forgetting, and gradually it just stopped working anyway, and we went back to no sleeping till 10/11pm.

So, as DD was due to go up to the pre-school room where there was no naptime anyway, a couple of month's ago I said I really wanted the nap to stop as she wasn't sleeping till 10/11pm, and to prepare her for no nap in the new room. This was a battle with nursery who were not keen but eventually agreed. Was brilliant, bedtimes were quick and easy, DD getting a solid 11/12 hours a night.

She's now started in the pre-school room and...has been napping. Apparently they have story time after lunch and she drops off. I have asked them to keep her awake and explained loads of times that this means she's not sleeping till 10/11pm, and so is losing out on three hours sleep a night for the sake of 45 mins in the afternoon. She's then tired the next day, so even more likely to fall asleep, and so it goes on.

Nursery have basically said if she's falling asleep and calling her name doesn't wake her up, they won't do anything else to rouse her or keep her awake, and won't take her out to do something else at story time. I really do understand their reluctance to wake a tired kid, but it's totally detrimental to her wellbeing as it means she is getting much less sleep.

Would I be unreasonable to really push them on this? Or is this usual nursery policy?

OP posts:
toomuchlaundry · 14/02/2022 23:09

What do you do in the evening to try and promote sleep.

Pre-school will probably be more tiring than the days when she is at home as there is so much going on and they will be learning so much new stuff.

cuno · 14/02/2022 23:09

@CoastalWave

*Well, given she's in nursery more than she's with you, I would let them call it.

If she's still awake in the evenings, then do something to tire her out?! Take her out for a walk round the block. Enjoy the time with her given you don't get to see her all day??*

Well I presume OP isn't sending her daughter to nursery for the sake of palming her off, but rather she has to work to put a roof over her and her daughter's head.

Monopolyiscrap · 14/02/2022 23:10

Some parents look down on nursery workers and just think they are all stupid plebs trying to do as little as possible.

nokidshere · 14/02/2022 23:11

@BoredZelda My daughter would not nap at nursery and that meant she wouldn’t sleep at night as she was too tired.

This is the more usual scenario.

BoredZelda · 14/02/2022 23:11

Well, given she's in nursery more than she's with you, I would let them call it.

There are 168 hours in a week, she’s with nursery 32 of them.

OfstedOffred · 14/02/2022 23:11

That is not true. I have known 5-year-olds fall asleep at 3 pm.

Occasionally yes. But routinely every day after lunch? Falling asleep on the floor every day even if someone is encouraging you to come and play outside? Thats no 3 year old I've ever met.

lisaandalan · 14/02/2022 23:12

I'd be finding a new nursery or a childminder, I'm a childminder and would do everything I possibly could to do as a parent has asked.
They are paying you after all.

ParalysisByAnalysis · 14/02/2022 23:12

I don’t think they’re stupid plebs. Far from it. I think they’re quite wonderful.

But I do think there is an element of letting them sleep to give them a bit of a break, make it a little easier etc. it’s not necessarily a criticism of them, it’s the same in all workplaces, making the day a little easier. But ultimately it should be up to the parents whether the child naps or not, and for how long.

Monopolyiscrap · 14/02/2022 23:13

I agree the more common scenario is a child at nursery does not have a nap even though they need one, as there is too much going on they want to do.

HardbackWriter · 14/02/2022 23:15

I don't understand this belief that nursery must be deliberately getting her to sleep for a break - OP says she's in a preschool room where the children don't routinely nap. Is the conspiracy theory that they're coaxing them all to sleep and telling every parent that their child just happens to fall asleep so that the staff can chill out? If there are other children in the room awake why would they be actively encouraging OP's daughter to sleep - what would they gain from it?!

Scbchl · 14/02/2022 23:17

I don't think yabu at all. When all my kids were at nursery there was a quiet corner where they would read to some of the kids who wanted it on bean bags and then there was still other stations set up to play for those who didn't want to. Nurseries are always roasting hot too. Many kids would have their night time sleep disturbed if napping at 3.

nokidshere · 14/02/2022 23:17

I'd be finding a new nursery or a childminder, I'm a childminder and would do everything I possibly could to do as a parent has asked.
They are paying you after all.

Everything you possibly could but not everything a parent has asked. Only with one to one care can you cater for one specific child's needs. When you have more than one child you have to adapt in order to do the best you can for all the children in your care not just one of them.

GettingThemFromHereToThere · 14/02/2022 23:17

@BoredZelda

We had the opposite problem. My daughter would not nap at nursery and that meant she wouldn’t sleep at night as she was too tired.

If a child is falling asleep in nursery, in a room where other kids aren’t napping, then they are proper tired and need that nap.

But they're tired because they have the nap so won't sleep until 10/11pm. It's a vicious cycle resulting in the child getting insufficient sleep.
GettingThemFromHereToThere · 14/02/2022 23:18

[quote Monopolyiscrap]@GettingThemFromHereToThere there have been good suggestions about how to break this and introduce good sleep hygiene.
But a nursery is not legally allowed to keep an exhausted child awake.[/quote]
No solutions then. You obviously feel it's ok for a 3 year old to go to bed at 11pm.

Brett239 · 14/02/2022 23:19

She's transitioning between needing a nap/not needing a nap. It doesn't happen overnight and yes you are going to have to deal with some late nights for a while. It's normal. If she's tired during the day then she should sleep. The nursery would be cruel to force her to stay awake.

OfstedOffred · 14/02/2022 23:19

I'd completely buy this happening an odd time. It's the coincidence of it happening every day and continuing even when the child has moved room.

It just suggests their staff and routine dont allow for enough staff to take non-sleepers outside/to a more engaging activity and instead have the whole group seated for story time to allow other staff to take breaks/do learning journeys/update tapestry.

It's not in the best interests of the children or the staff to be so tight in staffing that you "need" all children to be napping/resting to fit staff breaks.

OfstedOffred · 14/02/2022 23:21

She's transitioning between needing a nap/not needing a nap. It doesn't happen overnight and yes you are going to have to deal with some late nights for a while. It's normal.

It's not normal for nap transition to result in 11pm bedtimes! This child hasnt napped at home in a year so this isnt a nap transition. It's a bad habit that can easily be broken in a matter of days.

nokidshere · 14/02/2022 23:24

No solutions then. You obviously feel it's ok for a 3 year old to go to bed at 11pm.

I know this wasn't directed at me but anyway.

The most obvious solution to this is to look at how the nap affects the evenings. It could be that the OP is keeping the child up too late, many parents do, and she is becoming overtired and unable to settle.

We don't know what time OP tried to put the child to bed, or what time she had a nap at nursery, or what she did after nursery and before bed. All these things matter as a whole picture and tweaking any or all of them could produce a different outcome.

Saying that the nap is the only reason is inaccurate because we have insufficient data on which to base our replies.

2pinkginsplease · 14/02/2022 23:24

@GettingThemFromHereToThere*

The problem is, those blanket policies don't work.

OPs child is going to be at close to 11pm because of a 45 min nap. That's crazy. And it's a vicious cycle because it causes her to be extra tired the next day. Hence nap. Hence late night and reduced sleep. Hence nap. Hence....

A few days of hard work, cutting the nap will likely benefit everyone; mum, nursery and most importantly her child who is currently sleep deprived.

If a nursery isn't willing to adjust its practice to suit the well-being of an individual child, then I'd argue it isn't child focused.*

I don’t write these policies and don’t always agree with them however at that moment in time it’s in the child’s best interest to have a nap and if we stop that then we end up with a frustrated, unhappy child for the rest of the day, which isn’t the best thing for any child.

We do try our best to work with parents regarding naps and have restricted one child’s naps to half an hour as long as it’s before 2pm as that child is miserable all day without the nap. We as staff want to do what’s best for each and every child but keeping a very tired child awake is difficult.

BlondeWidow · 14/02/2022 23:26

Keep her off nursery for 2 weeks - bingo

LizzieSiddal · 14/02/2022 23:28

It seems more cruel to do something that means she can't sleep for hours at night, when she really needs to! She never naps at home and is absolutely fine,

  1. But she needs to sleep at nursery! You keep saying she never sleeps at home but I presume Home hasn’t got lots of other children there plus numerous planned activities going on. Nursery school tires children out more than at home because there’s so much going on. I can understand your frustration, but you have to look at it form both sides. Your dd does need a sleep at nursery because she’s falling asleep and it would be cruel for someone to wake her up!

If I were you I’d ask for a meeting and talk about what you can both do to sort this
Issue out.

8dpwoah · 14/02/2022 23:29

Loving all the suggestions to keep her off nursery btw- do they think it's ok to keep this ongoing situation on the poor child until the OP is able to book a block of annual leave? Unless they work in a school and half term is looming that just isn't a sensible option for them, surely?

Monopolyiscrap · 14/02/2022 23:30

No staff want life to be made more difficult for parents. But staff have to put the best interests of the child they have there in front of them.

By the way, Montessori nurseries, will not usually stop a child sleeping, wake them up, or try and make them nap. They believe children should be allowed to sleep if and when they want to.

OfstedOffred · 14/02/2022 23:32

Blondes idea would have been my next suggest, if you can possibly manage it Even just tag a couple of days to a weekend to get her back to a normal bedtime. 3 days in a row would probably do it. Ask the nursery to take her outside after lunch and explain she's had a good nights sleep so should not be tired.

ForTheLoveOfSleep · 14/02/2022 23:34

OFSTED 4.3 Parental wishes should be taken into consideration, although staff cannot force a child to sleep, wake or keep a child awake against his or her will. This is an Ofsted regulation.

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