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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Dads joining coffee group

499 replies

CaptainMyCaptainn · 14/02/2022 14:25

So I strongly suspect I’m being UR and probably need a resounding yes to give me a head wobble.

A weekly coffee / lunch meet up in a pub for mums started a few months ago. It was advertised as mums and mums to be and it’s been a great space to meet other mums and talk about everything from boobs and PND to holidays.

Someone recently asked if there’s a similar group for dads and then all of a sudden, dads were being added to the WhatsApp group and have started to come. Today, one came on his own as he left sleeping baby at home with mum. I personally think it changes the dynamic to have men but I think I’m being UR here. Just hoping that whilst I’m UR, it’s understandable.

Just to add, there are dads who come to other baby groups I go to and it’s completely ok, and I happily chat to them. But it’s this particular one where it’s more of a support group that feels uncomfortable.

OP posts:
gogohm · 14/02/2022 15:15

A coffee/lunch meet up is aimed at those not working outside the home, if they are a stay at home dad then absolutely I think they can come - this isn't a medical support group, just local people l(and if the men are weirded out by talk of breastfeeding and birth they won't come back!) it's in a public place.

I am surprised men want to come to be honest but if they do I wouldn't have a problem. We have dads at tots and the mums talk about all kinds of "womens" stuff, I love watching their facesGrin

Cherrysoup · 14/02/2022 15:16

Could you mention that you aren’t thrilled with this? I’d be really unhappy if my supportive ‘No-one told me about the piles’ group turned into a bloke space. I don’t think you need to be progressive and include the husbands in a female only group. They can have their own group.

marqueses · 14/02/2022 15:16

@MayThePawsBeWithYou

The poor dad who came didnt know he would be the only one. It changed the dynamics but maybe it would be kinder if your group could help set up a daddy or couples group.
You aren't seriously suggesting that a woman is needed to set up a daddy group are you? Is the penis a barrier to the simple act of making a whatsapp group Shock

I wouldn't like it either OP, to be quite frank I would have had no interest in a mixed group when my DC were babies and would have gone to a different one.

ParadiseLaundry · 14/02/2022 15:17

@Notanewusertool

And it's all very well saying "dad's set up their own group" but round here the ratio is about 1 SAHD to about 15 SAHM.
Well in that case perhaps a dad could organise a group that allows all parents.
lottiegarbanzo · 14/02/2022 15:18

Dads are welcome at child-focused stuff, playgroups etc.

Not at regular meetings of female ante-natal groups, IME.

BigFatLiar · 14/02/2022 15:19

@Peas252

Why can’t they create their own Dads group though?

My dh did try to form one, and advertised it on the local Facebook group. He was quickly shutdown by the women on that group because it was "sexist" to exclude women and each time after he posted, it was deleted by the admin.

Unfortunately its often seen as sexist to bar women but not to bar men. He needed to find other ways to advertise his group.
VivX · 14/02/2022 15:19

@SomeOwlsCoo

The poor dad who came didnt know he would be the only one. It changed the dynamics but maybe it would be kinder if your group could help set up a daddy or couples group.

Seriously? Mums should "be kind" and set up a Daddy group? Can men not set up their own group?

This reminds me of when my dc were small (16ish years ago.) I used to take them to a local toddler group one weekday morning. Then they announced there was also going to be one on a Saturday morning. Perfect I thought, something cheap and local on a Saturday morning that their Dad and I can take them to. Only when we got there we were told it was for dads only. But there were mums there. I could see them. Turns out they were there to set up/ clear away/make tea and coffee and keep an eye on the kids while the dads relaxed.
So when I went to my midweek toddler group I paid 50p, supervised my children. Took my turn at making drinks, we were strictly limited to 1 drink each at the specified time in the specified room. Helped tidy up at the end.
When the dads went on a Saturday they paid 50p and sat around drinking unlimited teas and coffee whilst the volunteer mums kept an eye on the kids and tidied up.

Women volunteered to clear up after the men? F*ing hell.
gogohm · 14/02/2022 15:19

Remember the number of stay at home dads is tiny, in a town like mine there probably isn't enough for a group with a similar vibe to what sounds like a great casual supportive environment. Plus if they are the principal caregiver they will be facing many of the issues the sahms do

PleasantBirthday · 14/02/2022 15:20

Women volunteered to clear up after the men? F*ing hell.

Haven't you seen all the posts about how it's the responsibility of women to include SAHDs so that society can change?

AmyDudley · 14/02/2022 15:22

If you are discussing things like breast feeding, childbirth, childbirth trauma, gynae stuff, then men do not need support in these areas so they don;t need to be there, also they can offer no support not having experienced it themselves. You need to be really clear that this is a space for women to discuss these kind of things and get support from other women.
At the moment I don't think your raison d'etre is clear and that is shown by the fact that men think it is OK to turn up. They presumably think it is just a parenting/meeting new parent friends group, which is obviously a legitimate type of group but not what you want.

I'm quite happy to be involved in mixed group if they are conversational or about shared interests, bt specific sex support groups are a different thing. I wouldn;t dream of invading a support group for people with prostate problems as I would have nothing to offer by way of support and my presence might inhibit those who do need support from speaking up.

There needs to be a straight conversation where 'we want to talk about personal women's topics without feeling inhibited and this is the group we have made' If you want a mixed friendship/parenting group that can be set up, as can a men's support group, but this one is for women's issues' If men are keen enough they will set up a group.

DysmalRadius · 14/02/2022 15:23

I'd be very surprised if anyone on here wasn't aware that dads can stay at home, raise babies etc. The point isn't that they don't need a support group, where men are welcome, but that they might just have to form their own, rather than shoehorning themselves into ones created by and for women.

The dads I know that have dads support groups have set them up themselves and organised the other dads to do things together, not just turned up (WITHOUT A BABY!!!) to a mums' groups and expected everyone to accommodate them.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 14/02/2022 15:23

@Peas252

Do dads not need support too?
Not about engorgement, mastitis, gynaecological issues and potentially disclosing the onset of domestic abuse during pregnancy and sexual coercion during the postnatal period, they don't.

All of which are more likely to be discussed in a single sex space for friendship than if there's a bloke there.

ancientgran · 14/02/2022 15:24

I suppose it depends how everyone feels, if the majority are in favour of including men then it is how it is probably how it will be, if it is the case can any of you who want an all female group get together and start one. You can then set the rule that it is strictly for mothers.

ClaraTheCelebrityPachyderm · 14/02/2022 15:28

@Peas252

Do dads not need support too?
Then why don't they set up their own? You know, like women do? I set up and run a social group for women 45+ in my area. I've been in mixed sex social groups and the (men always take over) dynamic is very different. If men need support there's nothing stopping them setting up a group for men, or even a mixed sex group, and leave the women's group alone.
Phobiaphobic · 14/02/2022 15:28

Apart from anything else, it tends to change a group dynamic. So often it means women can't talk openly about the sexism or misogyny they might be experiencing, and the group having to centre the man/men's feelings all the time. Bugger that.

GatoradeMeBitch · 14/02/2022 15:31

Try and organize smaller meetings privately between you and any other women who seem uncomfortable.

To say that men need equal support is just... Women need to talk about things like trouble with latching on, mastitis, stitches, infection, hormones, recovery from birth injuries, first period after giving birth. It's a lot more visceral and intimate than "wow, only got 6 hours of sleep last night".

RedWingBoots · 14/02/2022 15:32

YABU if it wasn't made clear the point of the group was to talk about things like breast feeding, birth trauma etc.

These threads come up every now and then, and it's clear the focus of the group, as in the areas support is being provided for, isn't made clear.

Btw My DP took shared parental leave like some male friends and colleagues of mine, plus I also know a SAHD. None of them wanted to encroach on female spaces but those who didn't know retired people and bumped into other dads felt isolated.

DysmalRadius · 14/02/2022 15:33

@gogohm

Remember the number of stay at home dads is tiny, in a town like mine there probably isn't enough for a group with a similar vibe to what sounds like a great casual supportive environment. Plus if they are the principal caregiver they will be facing many of the issues the sahms do
But this is one meet that the OP would like to keep women-only. I doubt very much that the women going to that simply stay at home with their babies for the rest of the week, so there must be other things to do.

And if they are facing many of the same issues women do, then they can start a mixed-sex group to discuss the commonalities, and allow women to have one group that is just for the issues that ONLY women face, surely?

AgathaAllAlong · 14/02/2022 15:34

I wouldn't have liked this because I don't really like chit chat with men. So you're not unreasonable to not like it as much. But I guess if it's billed as a general support group and it's other women inviting partners in, some others in the group feel differently.

PleasantBirthday · 14/02/2022 15:34

Btw My DP took shared parental leave like some male friends and colleagues of mine, plus I also know a SAHD. None of them wanted to encroach on female spaces but those who didn't know retired people and bumped into other dads felt isolated.

But why aren't you wondering why you think that's a problem for the OP and other new mothers to solve?

BurntO · 14/02/2022 15:37

They need to set up their own group. I suspect they see the setting up of groups of this type as “woman’s work” however Hmm

nothingmorethanthis · 14/02/2022 15:38

@Mollysocks

Why on Earth does the OP need to be "kind" and set up a group for the dads? Bimey if the dads want their own group they can set it up themselves!

I know! These men who own companies and deal with customers and profits and million pound contracts… can’t set up a Dads group! 🙄 I’d leave them to it but then I’ve had enough of this BS

So much truth in this..
lottiegarbanzo · 14/02/2022 15:38

Can't the people who want men included (those women who want to invite their partners and those partners), just arrange to meet on a different day?

It sounds as though no-one has explicitly said that they appreciate this group being female only. It's been implicit. So not everyone has realised.

It sounds a bit like the classic post-natal ward dilemma. New mothers are happy to have their own lovely partner there but not other people's, not so lovely, partners. They often cannot compute that to other women, their lovely partner is 'just another bloke, getting in the way'. Not as adorable, attentive and sensitive as he is to them.

Maybe the group will move on from its very physical, post-natal focus and become a friendly parents' meet up. But IME, while ante-natal groups do change like that, the men are only ever associate members, welcome to birthday parties and social events, not to week-day coffees.

MaudieandMe · 14/02/2022 15:38

YANBU and it should remain a women only group.

There’s plenty of existing baby and toddler groups and activities that men can attend as well as setting up their own group if they want specific support. My DS and DIL split the childcare between them for baby DD whilst they both work different hours so DS has baby DD on his own quite a lot but I still think this should remain a women only group.

Definitely speak to the organiser and clarify the terms of the group membership.

sashagabadon · 14/02/2022 15:40

agree with everyone saying men/dad's should set up their own group if they want to. This is not for the women to organise though

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