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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Dads joining coffee group

499 replies

CaptainMyCaptainn · 14/02/2022 14:25

So I strongly suspect I’m being UR and probably need a resounding yes to give me a head wobble.

A weekly coffee / lunch meet up in a pub for mums started a few months ago. It was advertised as mums and mums to be and it’s been a great space to meet other mums and talk about everything from boobs and PND to holidays.

Someone recently asked if there’s a similar group for dads and then all of a sudden, dads were being added to the WhatsApp group and have started to come. Today, one came on his own as he left sleeping baby at home with mum. I personally think it changes the dynamic to have men but I think I’m being UR here. Just hoping that whilst I’m UR, it’s understandable.

Just to add, there are dads who come to other baby groups I go to and it’s completely ok, and I happily chat to them. But it’s this particular one where it’s more of a support group that feels uncomfortable.

OP posts:
Holskey · 17/02/2022 11:55

@Raevsky stop with the straw man argument. Many women here have said that women should be able to have their own groups (and we've given sound, and frankly, obvious reasons). NOBODY has said there should be no mixed sex groups. Nobody.

LuckySantangelo35 · 17/02/2022 12:12

@DePfeffoff
The women can discuss their birth injuries and changes to their bodies for as long as they want! With no obligation to move the topics along to make the group more accessible to men.

And it’s a bit different having that kind of conversation with males who are active participants and listeners in the group as opposed to men sat on a different table in a cafe a couple of meters away or whatever who are having their own separate conversation with other people

Monopolyiscrap · 17/02/2022 12:39

I can't imagine discussing the difficulties of breastfeeding with a man. Or with another woman who has never breastfed. Unless all you are doing is venting, it is a subject to discuss with other women who have actually breastfed.

mamabear715 · 17/02/2022 13:38

Not RTFT but I absolutely HATED that type of group anyway!
I went because I wanted conversation on anything except babies, and it ended up being the best brand of baby vests to buy. Zzzzzz. Books, films, politics, even, would have been better, so I guess I would have welcomed a Dad in the hope of other subjects!

Holskey · 17/02/2022 14:26

@mamabear715

Not RTFT but I absolutely HATED that type of group anyway! I went because I wanted conversation on anything except babies, and it ended up being the best brand of baby vests to buy. Zzzzzz. Books, films, politics, even, would have been better, so I guess I would have welcomed a Dad in the hope of other subjects!
Eh? Women are just as capable of talking about politics and films as men, but if you go to a PARENTING group you are very likely to find the subject is parenting regardless of members' sex. Clue's in the name. Join a book club instead.
PleasantBirthday · 17/02/2022 15:07

@mamabear715

Not RTFT but I absolutely HATED that type of group anyway! I went because I wanted conversation on anything except babies, and it ended up being the best brand of baby vests to buy. Zzzzzz. Books, films, politics, even, would have been better, so I guess I would have welcomed a Dad in the hope of other subjects!
Weird. Mum group talks about stuff related to early baby rearing. What a bunch of fluffy brained losers. Why can't they talk about proper things like what I prefer?
DePfeffoff · 17/02/2022 16:40

[quote LuckySantangelo35]@DePfeffoff
The women can discuss their birth injuries and changes to their bodies for as long as they want! With no obligation to move the topics along to make the group more accessible to men.

And it’s a bit different having that kind of conversation with males who are active participants and listeners in the group as opposed to men sat on a different table in a cafe a couple of meters away or whatever who are having their own separate conversation with other people[/quote]
Obviously they can discuss whatever they want for as long as they want. And that includes moving away from discussing pregnancy and birth if that's what they want. The point is that people on this thread seem to assume that women with babies never want to discuss anything else. There is also an assumption that these are meetings held in private, whereas in fact they happen in pubs etc - so it's not as if anyone has ever been desperate for a so-called safe space for the group. Clearly many of this particular group have moved on and don't have a problem with men joining it. If OP is still desperate to discuss childbirth without men around, there is nothing to stop her getting together separately with others for that purpose.

VivX · 17/02/2022 17:33

@Raevsky
This sounds like the sort of supportive group for dads as well as mums that I would've loved to have when I started out dadding. There are a lot of groups out there that are billed as being for parents, but in practice if you turn up as the only bloke you're generally unwelcome.

Well this particular one was advertised as being for Mums and Mums-to-be so clearly not for Dads... If you turn up to a Mums and Mums-to-be group, then of course you'd be unwelcome.
Parenting groups, which are mixed, do exist!

As the primary carer for my kids I've not found dads' groups particularly helpful. They are few and far between (there are none active in my city at the moment) and overwhelmingly attract part-timers doing their one day a week. You're never going to have a discussion there about which is the best local brownie group to send your DD to.

Why do women need to solve this for you? It isn't a women's problem if the Dads are shite at being helpful.
Also, plenty of Mums work part time (including ones who go to Mums meet ups), why have you dismissed part-time Dads?
And again, you could also seek out parenting groups.

It's seems nuts to me how many people on this thread are arguing for meet-ups and support for parents to be segregated on the basis of sex. Every uni or works social, every sports club or society I've been to in my life has been mixed, so the expectation that you should divide on traditional gender lines after having kids has felt pretty jarring (especially since my SAHD status puts me on the wrong side of that divide!).

Women's only sports, networking and friendship groups also exist! The fact that you haven't come across them or tried to gatecrash one is irrelevant.

Oh I'll pitch in in support of the guy turning up without the baby too. Perhaps he was going to take on more childcare when his DP went back to work and wanted to make some friends and contacts in advance of that. If I'd been in his position and heard of a parenting group that welcomed dads, I would've gone along too...

But this group was advertised as "Mums and Mums to be". You're coming across as yet another man who thinks that he's entitled to attend a women's only space.

In this context it just feel odd that now I'm doing a childcare and home making role that's overwhelmingly done by women, I'm expected to only spend time with other blokes.

Literally nobody has said you were expected to only spend time with other blokes. Why are you inventing problems where there are none.

VivX · 17/02/2022 17:40

@vivainsomnia

did you not read PPs about breasts and vaginal stitches etc? Surely if that's what your desperate yo discuss, you can take a few women to the other side of the group to talk about it. It can't be the theme that dominates the conversation every single meet up.

I had the best discussions about breastfeeding with my boss at the time. His youngest child was the sane as mine. I went back to work at 5 months and he was very supportive. It felt totally natural to discuss breastfeeding with him. I never felt he was a perv who wanted to hear about my breasts.

Seriously, no. Women do not need to move to the side of the group to talk about something, particularly at a women's group that men have decided to go along to.

The entire point of a women's group is so that women do not have to make allowances for men at the group.

UppermillSarah · 17/02/2022 17:54

@Wavypurple

YANBU they’ll barge in anywhere they can because it’s ‘their right’ and no one will say no and are obvious to what the space is for.

Doubt they’d want you at their golf meet ups or wherever else they meet up and complain about their wives and the unfairness of it all.

you have a very low opinion of men
longwayoff · 17/02/2022 19:00

'You have a very low opinion of men'. Hmm. Maybe she does. Most of us base our opinions on experience so perhaps it's justified if true.

Womencanlift · 18/02/2022 12:52

This thread is currently being discussed on Loose Women

ManAlive24 · 18/02/2022 13:01

@Peas252

Why can’t they create their own Dads group though?

My dh did try to form one, and advertised it on the local Facebook group. He was quickly shutdown by the women on that group because it was "sexist" to exclude women and each time after he posted, it was deleted by the admin.

I don't believe this for a second.
Bleachmycloths · 18/02/2022 13:37

After centuries of patriarchy, superiority and inequality, men can just jog on and leave alone a group of women who want to connect and not feel uncomfortable.

No, I am not a misandrist but this kind of touch-feely inclusivity irks me.

LuckySantangelo35 · 18/02/2022 13:51

@Bleachmycloths

After centuries of patriarchy, superiority and inequality, men can just jog on and leave alone a group of women who want to connect and not feel uncomfortable. No, I am not a misandrist but this kind of touch-feely inclusivity irks me.
@Bleachmycloths completely agree!!
Mollysocks · 18/02/2022 13:55

@Womencanlift

This thread is currently being discussed on Loose Women
Ooh what did they say out of interest?
longwayoff · 18/02/2022 13:57

Loose Women eh? I hope they remembered to invite Raevsky, sounds like just his cup of tea.

tillytown · 18/02/2022 13:58

Why are some men incapable of respecting women? The OP has said there are local groups for men and families, so why do the men need to go to the only women one?

haikyew · 18/02/2022 14:04

Why does everything
Need to be mixed gender now
Men encroach too much

VivX · 18/02/2022 14:12

Loose women:
www.itv.com/hub/loose-women/1a3173a3925
at 17:30

Basically said that men should be welcome, even if women have to change because men are there.

I don't usually watch LW, and if this is the level of their thoughts on women-only spaces, I don't feel I've missed much.

Mollysocks · 18/02/2022 14:14

@VivX

Loose women: www.itv.com/hub/loose-women/1a3173a3925 at 17:30

Basically said that men should be welcome, even if women have to change because men are there.

I don't usually watch LW, and if this is the level of their thoughts on women-only spaces, I don't feel I've missed much.

Oh wow tbh I’m not surprised by that attitude. Womens spaces are being eroded and even some women are happy about it.

Once they’re gone we won’t get them back.

Jonny1265 · 18/02/2022 14:20

I'm an advocate of gender specific spaces for some things. That's a need for both genders. Some things are fine to be mixed but some things benefit from the safety provided by being with your own sex.

tabletopgreen · 19/02/2022 19:44

FortunateOne In my group, one of the women suggested the men form their own group but it never happened.

This is the CRUX of it, all these single spaces issue come back to the same thing, women have supportive groups. Men can’t manage this (except male cyclists and golfers) so grate crash women’s groups.

Men ! Take up golf and cycling ! Those men can manage this, so can you !

tabletopgreen · 19/02/2022 19:45

I love my own typo

Grate Crash.

Perfectly describes male behaviour

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