Dads joining coffee group

[CaptainMyCaptainn]

So I strongly suspect I’m being UR and probably need a resounding yes to give me a head wobble.

A weekly coffee / lunch meet up in a pub for mums started a few months ago. It was advertised as mums and mums to be and it’s been a great space to meet other mums and talk about everything from boobs and PND to holidays.

Someone recently asked if there’s a similar group for dads and then all of a sudden, dads were being added to the WhatsApp group and have started to come. Today, one came on his own as he left sleeping baby at home with mum. I personally think it changes the dynamic to have men but I think I’m being UR here. Just hoping that whilst I’m UR, it’s understandable.

Just to add, there are dads who come to other baby groups I go to and it’s completely ok, and I happily chat to them. But it’s this particular one where it’s more of a support group that feels uncomfortable.

@CaptainMyCaptainn

YANBU. The men can start their OWN group. And the women wanting THEIR men to join the women only groups, (mums or not) can fuck off.

When I first came to this village I live, I was asked by a neighbour - 12 doors down - to a 'ladies group' who got together every first and third Wednesday at the leaders house. She had a huge house, and a kitchen diner that was some 25 x 20 feet in size, with seating for around 30.

Only £1.50, and you got a coffee or tea, and a cake, and company for 2-3 hours. You got to meet new people, and sometimes they'd put a film on for us to watch.

Another woman moved into our road a few months after me, and she asked me if she could come. I asked the leader for her and she said yes. This woman came 3 or 4 times in 2 months - and then started asking if her husband could come. 'Oh but he's ever so quiet, he won't any trouble' and 'he is so shy he can't make friends.' The leader said 'it's ladies only, he can join a mens group no?' The woman said 'he can't seem to find one he likes, they're all sports based.'

THEN the neighbour started with the 'is it even legal to have a womens only group? Isn't it sexist?' I felt so embarrassed coz I had introduced this woman. She kept whispering to me 'this is just wrong, my husband should be allowed. Should I report this to someone?'

I got a bit snappy and said 'er no! This is Elizabeth's HOME, and she allows people in, and caters for 25 to 30 women every 2 weeks and opens her home to them. She chooses to have only women here, it's her home, it's her right!'

The neighbour never came again. Stupid woman!

Are there are some mums you feel closer to then the ones who potentially invited this guy? I’d slowly start meeting with those others separately. You can’t really win with this one and they’re already invited and coming.

I completely get how you feel but also understand there isn’t much support for new dads either and there is quite high depression rate amongst new dads (which helps no one, including the mums).

YANBU. I find it a bit strange the one man coming without the baby. TBH the main reason I needed those type of support groups at that stage of parenthood was because I had no way of leaving the baby with anyone else. He's clearly got daytime childcare, and presumably no mastitis to vent about. Why even go?

I'm NOT saying men shouldn't have dad groups, but they always seem to require women to set them up for them (yes I have experience here, I ran a Saturday playgroup for a while which attracted all parents, and regularly was in touch with people trying to get 'dad specific' groups off the ground, to no avail.)

@nothingmorethanthis So women are allowed allowed spaces to talk about their leaky woman issues if it is in a cold bleak community room hire with hard plastic seats? Or something suitably miserable and formally organised as ' 'leaky woman time', 7-8pm on Tuesday evening? Not in a nice warm pub with good food with your mates?

Who said anything about miserable cold community rooms with hard plastic seats? A rather odd conclusion to jump to. You'll have to quote where I said that because I seem to have gone blind.

Lunch at an open public space (pub) where many people come and go does rather imply open to everyone.

And I maintain that over meals isn't the right time to be talking in graphic detail about birth injuries regardless of the company.

[quote BearOfEasttown]@CaptainMyCaptainn

YANBU. The men can start their OWN group. And the women wanting THEIR men to join the women only groups, (mums or not) can fuck off.

When I first came to this village I live, I was asked by a neighbour - 12 doors down - to a 'ladies group' who got together every first and third Wednesday at the leaders house. She had a huge house, and a kitchen diner that was some 25 x 20 feet in size, with seating for around 30.

Only £1.50, and you got a coffee or tea, and a cake, and company for 2-3 hours. You got to meet new people, and sometimes they'd put a film on for us to watch.

Another woman moved into our road a few months after me, and she asked me if she could come. I asked the leader for her and she said yes. This woman came 3 or 4 times in 2 months - and then started asking if her husband could come. 'Oh but he's ever so quiet, he won't any trouble' and 'he is so shy he can't make friends.' The leader said 'it's ladies only, he can join a mens group no?' The woman said 'he can't seem to find one he likes, they're all sports based.'

THEN the neighbour started with the 'is it even legal to have a womens only group? Isn't it sexist?' I felt so embarrassed coz I had introduced this woman. She kept whispering to me 'this is just wrong, my husband should be allowed. Should I report this to someone?'

I got a bit snappy and said 'er no! This is Elizabeth's HOME, and she allows people in, and caters for 25 to 30 women every 2 weeks and opens her home to them. She chooses to have only women here, it's her home, it's her right!'

The neighbour never came again. Stupid woman! [/quote]
Ha ha. I wonder who on earth you'd report someone not inviting men to their home to and what their reaction would be. Maybe something to log with 101

@KeyWorker

Not unreasonable at all to want a Mums only space. If Dads need support too they are free to set up their own male only or mixed group.

And how many women would by crying for sex discrimination if there was a men's only coffee group?

@Opticabbage

I feel really bad for dads that want to take their kids to this type of group. The problem comes when loads of women only want to talk about female specific intimate issues as a way of excluding the dads. I've attended countless groups without hearing about periods, mastitis, birthing injuries etc.

Do you genuinely believe that women only talk about mastitis, incontinence, birth injuries etc to exclude men?

This type of group sound like a friendship and support type rather than child centered though. Hence (presumably) why yer man thought he'd pop in without baby!

YABU to assume that a group is single sex just because it is advertised as such.

Could you pass that by me again?

If the other women in the group are OK with it that's the end of the discussion, really. It's not as if there aren't plenty of sources of support available for breastfeeding etc.

Unfortunately its often seen as sexist to bar women but not to bar men. He needed to find other ways to advertise his group

So, men can't join a group with women, and they can't advertise a men's only group in case they offend women, yet virtually every poster on here is asking why men don't setup their own groups?

@Porcupineintherough

Aargh! unless it is advertised as such.

Oh!

@gogohm

Remember the number of stay at home dads is tiny, in a town like mine there probably isn't enough for a group with a similar vibe to what sounds like a great casual supportive environment. Plus if they are the principal caregiver they will be facing many of the issues the sahms do

Exactly. If it's for SAHPs there are going to be hardly any men at all doing that locally, so the whole knee-jerk "they can set up their own group" response just isn't realistic.

Whoever set up this group initially set the precedent when they didn't delete the fathers who had been added by wives, who had already joined the group, or who didn't specify what this group was for. I suspect that if you asked the wife of the dad who attended, she'd just see it as a groups for new parents (but why didn't he take baby to let his wife catch up on sleep?). Maybe he was hoping other dads would be there too.

Ask the person who set it up what the group was set up to be / achieve. The fact that it's become Y doesn't necessarily mean that it was intended as such; it may have been set up to meet X need, in which case it's you who needs the new group" to meet your needs, rather than the father.

I completely get how you feel but also understand there isn’t much support for new dads either and there is quite high depression rate amongst new dads (which helps no one, including the mums)

My MIL was really depressed after having kids - had them very close together, no disposable nappies, had to take kids and cloth nappies to laundrette. She was really young, isolated and miserable. So she got off her arse and set up her own group for mums to meet.

There are plenty of parenting groups - if not, set up your own. No-one set up parenting groups and birthing groups and refuges FOR women, women did that for themselves.

So I don't have a lot of time for men moaning at how much women have and its not fair, and we should let the men in too. We have that as we worked for it.

There are already plenty of parenting groups and support that men can access. And baby classes are a bloody industry now and open to all. And if that's not enough, the men can set up more.

I agree it sounds odd the dad coming on his own, but there is so little out there for dad's who are the main carers. It's fine saying they should start their own up, but they are still so much in the minority that it's really hard to get enough of them together. So I'd say we need a mix - if it's primarily support for new mums then better to be all female, but for a more generic social catchup it'd be good to be more inclusive.

My husband has been SAHD to our daughter since she was 6 months old, and has felt really unwelcome at so many playgroups etc - the result is that DD has very few opportunities to spend time with other children.

Lunch at an open public space (pub) where many people come and go does rather imply open to everyone.

So if you invite someone to a public place for a chat, you're automatically inviting everyone for a chat? I don't think that's how it works.

@Lockheart loads of exclusive groups meet in pub or in cafes. Lesbian groups, gay men's groups, disabled groups, anarchist groups. No you can't just draw a chair up at their table and join in because it is a cafe or a pub, just as you can't just draw up a chair at a table of anyone in a pub or cafe.
Being in a public place does not mean you ignore basic manners.

Tricky. I think it's fine to want a women-only group to talk about boobs and presumably other woman-only stuff.
But a mixed group is nice too.
I guess ideally it would have been clear from the start if this was specifically for women and more of a support group, but as you say, it started very neutrally and has evolved.
Could someone gently say to those who invited their DPs that it'd be great if they wanted to set up and come to another mixed group, but let's keep this one for women so we can all speak freely about the more 'embarrassing' things?

@Opticabbage

I feel really bad for dads that want to take their kids to this type of group. The problem comes when loads of women only want to talk about female specific intimate issues as a way of excluding the dads. I've attended countless groups without hearing about periods, mastitis, birthing injuries etc.

I've been to lots of groups for parents and children and those subjects are avoided in front of the dads. Funnily enough we can find other things to talk about.

The topics are to be expected at a mums and mums to be group and presumably it's advertised as such so they can be comfortable talking about them.

And how many women would by crying for sex discrimination if there was a men's only coffee group?

Well, there are quite a few around here and the total tally of women 'crying for sex discrimination' has been zero so far.

And how many women would by crying for sex discrimination if there was a men's only coffee group?

In my experience of a real one of theses? None. Not a single one! Because if some men make this choice then they feel the need for it. So they are welcome to it, to be encouraged in it, it benefits everyone!

Just like the Mens Sheds that are cropping up all over theplace. Wouldn't dream of imposing, or complaining. But I reserve the right to set up a womens version!

@MayThePawsBeWithYou

The poor dad who came didnt know he would be the only one. It changed the dynamics but maybe it would be kinder if your group could help set up a daddy or couples group.

This type of suggestion pisses me off - why should women have to set something up for men? Why can't the blokes set their own lunch meeting up? I'm sure their brains are just as capable of life admin as female brains.

I don't really care why someone wants a mums only or dads only group. If someone sets it up like that, then have the manners to respect that. It may not be run in the way you would. But either accept that or set up your own group.
But as someone who has organised a lot of things, I have zero patience for people trying to change an already established group or event. I see it so many times. From people wanting book groups that deal with easy reading books to focus on classic literature, to trying to change a playgroup to being a far more organised affair.
It is basically rude. Set up your own group.

@IntermittentParps

Tricky. I think it's fine to want a women-only group to talk about boobs and presumably other woman-only stuff. But a mixed group is nice too. I guess ideally it would have been clear from the start if this was specifically for women and more of a support group, but as you say, it started very neutrally and has evolved. Could someone gently say to those who invited their DPs that it'd be great if they wanted to set up and come to another mixed group, but let's keep this one for women so we can all speak freely about the more 'embarrassing' things?

Not sure how a group 'advertised as mums and mums to be ' is neutral. It sounds like it was set up for women.