To think ex shouldn’t share bed with 12yo DD?

[Splobbins]

Namechanged for this thread but am a longstanding regular.

DD told me that when she’s staying at ex’s this weekend, he’s having visitors and plans to give them his bed and he will sleep in hers - with her. She’s already been upset that he’s given guests her bed when she’s not there, without asking her (and always her bed, not DS’s). I said he should ask her first, but when she told me he wants to actually share her bed I was horrified. It is a double bed but that doesn’t make it ok imo. And he has other options like the sofa.

DD has started puberty and cares a lot about her privacy and private space. Ex has only recently moved and been able to give the dc their own rooms instead of sharing with her older brother.

However I searched for threads on this and quite a few responses to similar questions were that it’s fine and up to the dad, and that it’s ok for mums so it’s ok for dads too. I find that appalling - yes DD gets in my bed sometimes but we’re the same sex and I think it’s totally different in terms of how it makes her feel and the inappropriateness.

However I grew up in a home with zero boundaries and was sexually abused by my dad - so I can see I might have a distorted view.

DD has said she will tell him no she doesn’t want that - but he doesn’t tend to listen to her. AIBU and if I’m not, should I talk to him about it myself?

I am very close to my dad but absolutely no way would I share a bed with him at 12. Your DD isn't comfortable so that should be the end of it.
Surely it makes more sense to share with his son or to sleep on the sofa? He shouldn't just give up his bed and expect his 12 year old DD to share with him.

I don't think my 12 year old dd would be comfortable with that arrangement either. She likes her privacy and we respect that.
Collect your dd at bedtime OP.

@saleorbouy

If your both of the occupants of the bed are OK with it then it's fine. Would this be a question if reversed, a mother and her 12 year old DS?

Wouldn't like that either.

Once they hit puberty they need their own bed

@GatoradeMeBitch

Of course it's different. Waking up in the morning cuddled up to your Mum would be very different to waking up to your Dad's erection pressing into your back or tentpoling the sheets. That's my main problem with older kids sleeping with their fathers and why I see it differently to sleeping with their mothers. Men get erections while they are asleep. An older child who is dealing with hormones and everything else really does not need to see Dad's morning glory if she wakes up first.

Quite.

Also the same for boys going through puberty sharing with their mums.

Not right at all.

can't the dad and brother share her bed and she got in her brothers?

I completely agree, your dd should not have to share her bed with her dad, just because he's offered his own to visitors.
Dad should be on the sofa.
Dds bedroom should be a safe space for her, and there should be no reason for anyone to enter it unless invited to by dd.
Any other option is completely unfair on dd, there is no reason whatsoever that dd should not be able to sleep in her bed (bedroom) alone as that is her preference.

Have to say I don't think a 12 year old should ever share a bed with an adult male. The 12 year old's feelings are not relevant here. Most 12 year olds probably don't know why it might not be ideal.

Any person of any age should not be sharing a bed with someone against their will.
What is it teaching her about consent?

I also think he shouldn't be letting people sleep in her bed when she's not there. I don't understand parents who treat their kids as unwanted guests and everything they have including their bed is simply on loan to them and can be taken away for preferred guests.

Agree she should be asked and her opinion respected. That is informed consent, and regardless of what some children will/won't do, this is her boundary to decide.

As a way forward, given that she wants to see visitors, and doesn't want to make fuss etc, do you have an inflatable mattress/camping mat? She could take that and ask to DH to sleep on that in different room, or if he won't she might find a space she feels comfortable to sleep on the temporary bed - even if it's setup in her room, so although sharing a room, not sharing a bed.

Disclaimer - not rtft
I don't think any of your post matters over the part that she is not comfortable with it. It starts and ends there for me.
If you want to avoid the issue short term she could always have covid symptoms close to the visit and not go.
Alternatively could she not sleep in her brother's bed and brother share with Dad in her bed? (Assuming brother doesn't have a double and that's why Dad suggested this way around)
If you're going to speak to him, I would go with the facts that she's going through so many changes, that she's more aware of her body / privacy etc and she's upset with the plan.
I can't imagine a scenario of ever sharing a bed with my Dad at 12+
Same room on holiday etc but not the same bed.

Hello OP, (long reply sorry!) 🧡

I just want to say sorry to hear about your own experiences with your dad, it's something I can relate to in some ways.
I've done alot of reading about abuse and abusers and it's very likely abusers choose wives who've been abused if they have predilection towards children.
I'm not saying your ex is one of these men, my own DP isn't with me for my own past issues!
However many women with pasts such as yours have discovered their 'd'h's have been preditors and abused their own children, often DDs.
I understand many people will think it's unreasonable, it sounds utterly ludicrous a father being a risk to his child in that way, but I'm sure if you were to speak to a social worker about it, they'd be able to give you sadly 100s of stories of women who'd never have imagined their partners or exes being capable of abusing anyone, let alone their own dc.

This isn't to scare you, but please don't ignore any gut instincts when it comes to your DDs safety.
And whilst it's most likely innocent, there is no reason for him at all to share with her, she doesn't want too, end of story.

If he refuses to stop do not send her, there's a reason her privacy and wishes aren't being respected 💔

@Lyonic

I would never let a stranger sleep in the same bed as my kid...

Your daughter should be happy to sleep beside her dad! The world has gone mad.

Why should a girl put aside her feelings? Why would she opened she's happy with it just to make her dad happy? I completely disagree.

Pretend, not opened

lwren thanks for your post, I understand and sorry you can relate to the abuse.

I know exactly what you mean and I know my childhood led me to accept crap from men and end up with a man who didn’t treat me well. I would never, ever say I was 100% sure he wasn’t capable of what you’re suggesting, I don’t think I could say that about any man. I am very aware of the risk and what you’re saying makes sense.

I think the reality here is more complex and to do with ex’s need to control and unconscious misogyny. He thinks he’s a good guy and would be horrified to think he’s a misogynist, but it’s plain as day that he has far less respect for DD’s space and feelings, and isn’t sensitive about puberty at all because he is not good at putting himself in others’ shoes and probably won’t even have thought about it.

However I’m not naive and not making excuses for him - I’m aware of potential problems and ready to have them not go if necessary. It’s difficult because they do love him and want to see him, and any teen/tween can both love their parent and have complaints about them (sure that applies to me too). But I’m absolutely not “he’d never do that” IYSWIM.

@Splobbins I think you are level headed and reasonable and teaching your daughter to have self respect and boundaries.

I agree with your dd, her bedroom is her personal space and she should have been asked and at the very least consulted before guests stayed in there so she could remove anything special or private.

How can we teach our children to respect themselves, respect others if we don’t treat them with respect?

You sound like a great mum 🌸🌺🌷🌻

@Splobbins

I think she would like to see the visitors. But she could do that and come back to mine overnight if needed. However, there is space – there are ways they could all fit in without imposing on DD's space.

Do you have an airbed you could send with her maybe?

I wouldn't think twice about DH sharing a bed with my 11 year old DD, provided she was OK with it (she wouldn't be because he snores like a hog).

I think in this situation you need to support your daughter. My 14yr old would not be happy with this at all and she and her dad have an amazing relationship. Possibly share a room but not a bed with boundaries in place . My DD and 18 yr son share a twin room on holiday but are happy to do so and have been given the choice of sharing with mum or dad instead ( apparently we would be far worse 😀).They have mutually agreed boundaries re getting changed ect. I would speak to your ex and if he can't sleep with son could your DD share in this instance if she's happier with that.?

He must be crashingly immature if he thinks this is okay.
You are obviously going to have to be a strong advocate for your dd.
Neither of you should be afraid of upsetting him. His stupidity makes it necessary to upset him, and that’s his problem.

It doesn't matter what we think, what matters is that your daughter has voiced discomfort with it. That is deserving of respect. Either Dad shares with bro, air bed on the floor for somebody or she doesn't stay overnight.

She's 12 now, it's her call.

@Splobbins

lwren thanks for your post, I understand and sorry you can relate to the abuse.

I know exactly what you mean and I know my childhood led me to accept crap from men and end up with a man who didn’t treat me well. I would never, ever say I was 100% sure he wasn’t capable of what you’re suggesting, I don’t think I could say that about any man. I am very aware of the risk and what you’re saying makes sense.

I think the reality here is more complex and to do with ex’s need to control and unconscious misogyny. He thinks he’s a good guy and would be horrified to think he’s a misogynist, but it’s plain as day that he has far less respect for DD’s space and feelings, and isn’t sensitive about puberty at all because he is not good at putting himself in others’ shoes and probably won’t even have thought about it.

However I’m not naive and not making excuses for him - I’m aware of potential problems and ready to have them not go if necessary. It’s difficult because they do love him and want to see him, and any teen/tween can both love their parent and have complaints about them (sure that applies to me too). But I’m absolutely not “he’d never do that” IYSWIM.

So what are you actually going to do about it?

She’s going to tell him if she feels up to it, and if not, or if he doesn’t get it/tries to argue or insist, I will be talking to him. Also if it comes to it and he doesn’t respect her wishes after all, I’ll collect her.

Isn't the simplest solution that your DD declines to go to your exes on that night?

Maybe simplest but she wants to see the guests and also I have a commitment during the day - I realise I can cancel my commitment and that remains possible, but if she wants to go then this way works.