To think ex shouldn’t share bed with 12yo DD?

[Splobbins]

Namechanged for this thread but am a longstanding regular.

DD told me that when she’s staying at ex’s this weekend, he’s having visitors and plans to give them his bed and he will sleep in hers - with her. She’s already been upset that he’s given guests her bed when she’s not there, without asking her (and always her bed, not DS’s). I said he should ask her first, but when she told me he wants to actually share her bed I was horrified. It is a double bed but that doesn’t make it ok imo. And he has other options like the sofa.

DD has started puberty and cares a lot about her privacy and private space. Ex has only recently moved and been able to give the dc their own rooms instead of sharing with her older brother.

However I searched for threads on this and quite a few responses to similar questions were that it’s fine and up to the dad, and that it’s ok for mums so it’s ok for dads too. I find that appalling - yes DD gets in my bed sometimes but we’re the same sex and I think it’s totally different in terms of how it makes her feel and the inappropriateness.

However I grew up in a home with zero boundaries and was sexually abused by my dad - so I can see I might have a distorted view.

DD has said she will tell him no she doesn’t want that - but he doesn’t tend to listen to her. AIBU and if I’m not, should I talk to him about it myself?

I grew up in a home with zero boundaries and was sexually abused by my dad - so I can see I might have a distorted view

Your view isn't in the least distorted! I wasn't sexually abused by my dad, thank god, he was lovely. But I wouldn't have wanted to sleep with him, or any other man, when I was 12.

Sounds as if your ex has no regard for your DD's concerns anyway, giving her bed to someone else. Her boundaries and her need for privacy are an important issue, and you should explain this to him.

She doesn't want to share a bed with her dad, so it doesn't happen. If he can't find an alternative, then she doesn't stay over that night. 🤷‍♀️
No way should a 12yo girl be made to share a bed with her dad.

I would tell her to go and sleep on the sofa if he insists on sleeping in her bed. If she says no to him, it should be enough for him.

As others have said, I don't think it's out right wrong on all occasions but it certainly is if your daughter isn't comfortable with it

And I am truly amazed that 19% of MNers think it's ok for him to decide she should share his bed just because he has visitors!

Your daughter should be happy to sleep beside her dad! The world has gone mad

Who are you to say what the OP's daughter "should" be happy with? If she was comfortable with it, fair enough. She's made it clear she isn't!

I think you need to frame it as she is a 12 year old in the midst of puberty who simply doesn’t feel comfortable with it. And that is her right everyone has different boundaries and different things they are and what would be ok so it matters not a jot what anyone else would do
That is also a important lesson for you to push onto your daughter as well because peer pressure can mean she thinks that she should override such things
You have to stand up for your daughter now to really drive home the fact that if she is uncomfortable with anything that is enough.

@MerryMarigold

I think it's more to do with issues with your Ex. My DCs (13yo) often end up in bed with me or DH (we have separate double beds due to his snoring). It's pretty much every night and DD is often in with him rather than sleep alone. She does prefer sleeping with me, as does her DB! But she still loves the warmth/ company/ I don't know of sharing with a parent. I know it won't last much longer so just enjoy for now.

Yet another PP who has skated blithely past the fact that DD DOES NOT WANT TO SHARE A BED WITH HER DAD.

DD's feelings have got nothing to do with OP's past experience.
DD's feelings belong to her, & need to be respected FFS.

I would have been mortified, just mortified by this. I had a very strong sense of privacy from about 12/13 onwards. My dad did walk round with nothing on, I'm still trying to wipe out the memories! Nothing inappropriate, but my own sense of privacy was such I didn't want to see or be 'relaxed' about this stuff.

The question is then what can you do? I would let her stay home that weekend, she'll be fine on her own at 12 in the day and you can have her there one night. This just then sets the precedent she won't be coming over if there's going to be bed sharing.

It's not about what parents want all the time, once they are 13 plus, my parents felt fine being naked, it's not what I would have preferred and it hasn't made me feel more relaxed about nudity as an adult. Other people going to nudist beaches, naked at home, sleeping in beds all cuddled up, great, but I can't think of anything worse with my own parents!

Personally I don’t see an issue with it if she was comfortable but the problem here is she doesn’t want.
Can Ex not sleep on the sofa or DD sleep in DBs room and DB/Ex in the double? Or one in the bed one on floor on a blow up mattress?
Her concerns need to be listened to and she is entitled to her privacy.

Amazing how many people don't see the difference between something the child wants and is comfortable with and something they aren't.

This is basic stuff. Like the difference between being out with a female friend and opting to go into the toilets together when you're both comfortable with it - and you not wanting them to come in with you and them INSISTING on coming in and pushing into the cubicle while you're peeing even though you're upset by it. One is fine and a matter of personal comfort and taste, the other is obviously a dick move.

@Lyonic

I would never let a stranger sleep in the same bed as my kid...

Your daughter should be happy to sleep beside her dad! The world has gone mad.

Agreed. The World has indeed gone mad.

I wasn't sexually abused by my dad; but I would NOT have shared a bed with him when I was 12.

@Lyonic

I would never let a stranger sleep in the same bed as my kid...

Your daughter should be happy to sleep beside her dad! The world has gone mad.

Did you actually read the OP? She was sexually abused as a child, so that is bound to colour her view of the situation.

Thanks vv much everyone. Re nudity, yes I am conservative (though far from conservative in many other ways!) - My upbringing casts a long shadow and although I'm aware I probably err on the conservative side, I have given my DC the option of total privacy since 7-ish - but my DD and I are close and she will come in and chat to me when I'm in the bath and is happy for me to see her in the bath etc, but I always knock and check (and absolutely wouldn't do this if she wasn't comfortable, and she knows she could tell me). It is with a child of the opposite sex that I specified I think it's more important and I have made sure not to be naked in front of my DS or vice versa since before puberty, I wouldn't put him in that position.

I understand some people (/Germans) are more liberal but I couldn't be like that, it carries too many awful memories for me - and also I do think it could be confusing and that kids needs to learn about their right to privacy. With a parent, especially an overbearing one, it might not be just about what the child actually wants or feels OK with, but not wanting to upset the parent – that's why DD has talked to me.

@girlmom21

If she's not comfortable then it's not ok. That's the long and short of it.

Basically this. If she doesn't feel comfortable and she has expressed that, then she should not made to feel like she has to explain further. It doesn't matter that it's her dad, she doesn't want to then she should not have to. Why can't he share with the ds, and she take ds room?

I am sorry that you ex cannot see that he has to respect his children's feelings and that they are both reluctant to express their thoughts to him.

Regardless of whether you believe your ex will harm your daughter, her feelings are paramount here, she is not being unreasonable to feel that her space is being undermined. Her feelings of security are already shaky as she has only just been allowed to have that space away from her brother, it is not her own home 24/7 and her father is showing her that he can use this space as he wishes - these are not the right behaviours to make her feel grounded and secure.

I also think that your experiences of being abused by your father should not actually be dismissed here. The psychology of abuse is complicated and it does inform how we parent and also as children of abused adults, it also informs how we feel about boundaries even if we have never been abused ourselves. This is not in any way to say that you have passed on beliefs to her that you should have protected her from, it is very much more complicated than that and you are right to stand up for her boundaries and respect her wishes.

Your ex sounds like a difficult man who is, at this moment, not putting his child first or at least, not finding a suitable compromise that makes her feel that her needs are being considered, even if they cannot be 100% met on this occasion.

My 12 YO DD Wouldn't like this either. They need privacy at that age.

Hmm.

I would err on the side of 'not okay', OP.

I went away with my dad several times when I was younger, as did my sisters (our parents are not divorced - just that Dad went abroad a fair bit with work, so would take one of us with him sometimes, if it was in our school holidays). I always shared a hotel bedroom with him (separate beds), and we had a fab time (he makes me laugh more than anyone I've ever known, plus we got to have Coke from the mini bar, bath with jet stream thingies etc), but he would never have shared a bed with any of us once we were secondary school age. I remember a whole-family holiday where one of my sisters shared a double bed with him because our mum was bed-sharing with another sister who was sick, but she was about 10 then.

The only problem I see is that she doesn't want to.

Otherwise I would see no issue with a Dad sharing a bed under these circumstances with his daughter.

If they were permanently sharing a bed then I am not sure I would be ok with that.

The very simple answer is that this makes your DD uncomfortable so it cannot happen, her dad needs to appreciate this and teach DD that if something makes her uncomfortable, it is ok to say no.

What message is he sending if he declines to listen to her.

DD has said she will tell him no she doesn’t want that - but he doesn’t tend to listen to her

This is all you need to know. It is appalling that a grown man is sharing a bed with a girl who does not want him too. Even worse that she is going through puberty.

He's her Father. He is meant to be ENCOURAGING her to have boundaries, not eroding them. How is she meant to learn to have the confidence to say 'NO' to any man?

This situation is appalling!

Of course it's different. Waking up in the morning cuddled up to your Mum would be very different to waking up to your Dad's erection pressing into your back or tentpoling the sheets. That's my main problem with older kids sleeping with their fathers and why I see it differently to sleeping with their mothers. Men get erections while they are asleep. An older child who is dealing with hormones and everything else really does not need to see Dad's morning glory if she wakes up first.

I was brought up in a very liberal house. If at any point I was made to feel uncomfortable my parents would have respected that. I consider myself to be a liberal parent but I respect my childrens boundaries. Do not let him blame this on your childhood.

She has said no. That is all that matters.

I was fully prepared to say that if your DD doesn't mind then YABU because some children like to have their parents close and there's nothing wrong with that however your DD is clearly not comfortable with the situation and so I would be giving her the choice as to whether or not she even wants to go whilst she does not have a bed space to herself and I wouldn't be expecting her to discuss how uncomfortable she is either. I think you should be talking to your ex about her really not being OK with it because she's only 12 and it's hard to stand up to a parent especially when they have a track record of not listening. Does she have a phone to contact you and you could go and get her if needs be?