What would YOU do?

[Lyonic]

I have twin boys aged 2 and a half who will be starting nursery soon. While it has been a struggle to get to this stage theough covid, the idea of freeing up some time to get the house in order unmolested! Cant wait.

The issue is that my mother who has been retired for over a year has not offered any support for childcare. I was left in the care of my grandparents for 3 hours a day, Mon - Fri, yet us asking help for 1 day a week is crossing a line?

I feel im im the right but wanted to know what you think?

@Skilovingmama no I mean how do you tackle the challenges of an ageing population. By 2100, 23 countries are expected to see their population half. Shrinking populations are not necessarily a bad thing, shrinking ones that are predominantly older are.

I get the idea OP doesn’t like women in general

There are issues with aging populations in certain countries.

Which was my point.

Four pages on this, yet you haven't actually asked her for help?

Just ask. You lose nothing by asking, and you might gain.

I have kids & cats!

Any temporary issues in terms of job shortages can be solved through immigration (and this is where people show their true colours because they want people but not those sorts of people).

We know how popular that is don't we....

[quote weansu]@Skilovingmama no I mean how do you tackle the challenges of an ageing population. By 2100, 23 countries are expected to see their population half. Shrinking populations are not necessarily a bad thing, shrinking ones that are predominantly older are. [/quote]
Well continuing to grow the population isn’t going to help either because then there will be even more people and that contributes hugely to climate change. Not all countries have an issue with ageing populations so immigration can solve some of the issues in the meantime but overall, it would be a good thing if the world’s population shrunk rather than grew.

Unless your plan is to start killing people when they hit 80 or something. I would welcome euthanasia reform personally but many are against it.

The more I read of your messages, the worse you come across. Nobody owes you automatic childcare. Your mum is perfectly free to make different decisions to her mum. And you appear to believe that having children is you doing the world some sort of favour that means you deserve to have family clustering around you to raise them. You are being utterly ridiculous.

My DM never looked after my DS once. And then she didnt get how she didnt have a relationship with him. My DF had him alot and they both adored each other.

Neither of my bfs parents have ever bothered with their DGC.

I think you want her to want to even just occasionally.

Climate change does not impact mans ability to tame nature. We have people in tha arctic, in the desert, underground, under water, in space.

We need technology and you get more tech with more people. They are talking about harnessing the power of fusion. Think of it, the power of the sun at our fingertips.
With correct setups, hydroponics etc people can live anywhere

@Lyonic

I dont understand why parents would not want to support their children, thats the circle of life. When I did not have kids, having all that time for whatever, thinking of having that time again and not helping my kids seems bonkers.

You talk about a sense of entitlement but we have not had anyone look after our kids
once.

I guess maybe im just more family oriented than others.

It’s bloody hard work looking after just one child of that age, double the work with two. I’m sure you know this already. When you’re older everything is so much harder, even if you’re in good health.

Your parents looked after you when you were little. Perhaps they think it’s their time now to enjoy themselves and have the freedom to do what they like, without the burden of childcare.

You started off badly op, and it's got worse and worse.
I would wager that your mother doesn't offer you childcare because she doesn't like you.
A few questions...

1. You have mentioned several times that you are more 'family orientated'. I take it this means you have helped out consistently with other members of your family as that is what you have taken it to mean for your mother to provide free childcare. Weekly caring of nieces and nephews for example? Caring for your mother if she was ill? Etc
2. I take it your father isn't about as you haven't mentioned him.
3. So when you and your dh were deciding to have babies did one of you say 'we really must have children to ensure the human race doesn't die out. We'll struggle through with looking after them. '

We childfree women are destined to be alone, drunk and with loads of cats. (TBH, that sounds better than having kids to me but we're all different.)

It does to me and I do have kids

@Skilovingmama I never said anything about continuing to grow the population. The issue is shrinking, older ones.

The immigration aspect is interesting as it's not been particularly popular in recent years in the UK & I assume people aren't advocating that we forcefully take migrants. So how do we attract them & compete with other countries who need them? Why will they want to migrate in the first place if their young country is going through an economic boom & we are declining.

I'm torn on this.
One the one hand she doesn't owe you anything... she worked and had her DP as childcare..her choice (and maybe she wasn't that keen on staying home with little ones!) and now she's retired and wants to be..retired!
On the other hand being an involved grandparent is fabulous and I can't imagine not helping out..I work part time now and have my grandson anywhere between 1 and 4 days a week depending on my DD and her dh's nursing shifts. It's knackering but fun too. And I have a very special relationship with him as a result.
But I'm not sure I could manage two toddlers at once these days (I had 4 under 5 a long time ago)!

When you choose to have children, you take on the responsibility of looking after them all the time.

Yes, it's nice if people help, but you can't go into parenthood with that expectation (unless fully discussed in advance and even then people have the right to change their minds).

My parents are 300 miles away (we moved for work) but raised 3 DC alone, away from their families. In laws are one hundred miles away, had masses of parental help (in fairness, their parents were in their 40s when DH and SIL were born). They do lots for DH's sister, sod all for us.

Having not been near my GPS as a child, I didn't have that expectation of help but it was very noticeable once SIL had children that ILs were happy to support her. It used to really bug me until the day I had a long chat with DD post school about life not being fair (in a school context). It isn't, you can let it annoy you but that only affects you. I have less of an issue with the in laws having benefited from childcare, more of an issue with the inequitable treatment of the grandchildren.

So we just get on with it. When DC4 arrived 6 years ago, we decided to pay for childcare. We have the loveliest nanny and I found a term time job to fund it, which still gives time with the children. I'm fourteen years in to having children and my only time 'off' tends to be for work. My parents still try to help but are older now and have done enough for me and my siblings. But we have found our own way to deal with it, our nanny is one of the family (and happily is still with us despite hours decreasing as children grow older). And we are a tight unit.

I get very annoyed by the people I know locally who expect childcare and then whinge because it's not offered as/when they want or the GP doesn't look after the children as they expect. I will be more than happy to help mine when older but would not wish to be tied to a regular commitment. Most parents are ready for a break after 20+ years of that.

@Lyonic

I dont understand why parents would not want to support their children, thats the circle of life. When I did not have kids, having all that time for whatever, thinking of having that time again and not helping my kids seems bonkers.

You talk about a sense of entitlement but we have not had anyone look after our kids
once.

I guess maybe im just more family oriented than others.

You have been a parent for 5 minutes. Your mum did around 21 years (if you went to uni) plus all the extra stuff after 21. When you have done that you will realise that the chance to do something else , have a tidy ,non child friendly house is very nice. Looking after grandchildren is a massive responsibility . She would have 2 two year olds. Exhausting and slightly terrifying. She is allowed to say no. My son and his wife are expecting a baby in a few weeks. My husband and I are retired. We have said that we will be around in the future in school holidays as we don't go away then( cheaper and easier at other times of year). We have said we will do evenings and weekend babysitting if we are not away but we will not be available for definite days of each week to do drop off and pick up or full days. We will do emergency, thrown up at school type collections, if we are not away.I am very excited about being a granny but I am a person too. I brought them up as a single parent for years. I want to travel first class to new york now. They have absolutely no problem with that. The baby is theirs not mine.

I get where you are coming from. My mother has said, many times, "We didnt have any help, we just got on with it, so you will have to!" And my sister and I are thinking "So we didnt spend 3 days a week with Grandma, who would drop us back before she went to her job, that she took in order to facilitate the childcare she did for us then?!"

My mother has a very short memory. Although when I once asked her to babysit in an emergency and she kicked off, my sister said "Yes Pyong! Dont ask Ma to have the kids like grandma looked after us, that would be very selfish!". Ma tried to back track and sis had the kids for me! Since then she has offered and I have said thanks but no thanks.

Get your mum round to help get the house in order.

Maybe she doesn't fancy childcare!!

@Lyonic

Climate change does not impact mans ability to tame nature. We have people in tha arctic, in the desert, underground, under water, in space.

We need technology and you get more tech with more people. They are talking about harnessing the power of fusion. Think of it, the power of the sun at our fingertips.
With correct setups, hydroponics etc people can live anywhere

I think you’re the one dreading the dawn with the red wine, OP.

We need technology and you get more tech with more people.

a) No.

b) What's this got to do with your twins being minded?

You've gone off on some spectacular tangents. I'm still wondering why childless career women are 'dreading the dawn'. Sounds like a bit of projection on your part.

Wow this thread is a wild ride

@mowly77

Wow this thread is a wild ride

Isn’t it?! Tbf I’d probably be knocking back red wine and talking shite myself if I had toddler twins…

Reading all your replies Op, you sound a pillock. I cannot blame your mother if she doesn't want to look after your kids.

C'mon, everybody, the OP clearly deserves free childcare from her mum so she can use that time to develop nuclear fusion. Duh.