Tinder Swindler - victims should accept some accountability

[sometimespeopletakethepiss]

I can completely understand how these ladies could have fell for this guy BUT what I don't understand is the lack of accountability for their poor judgement.

In my life I would never, ever lend money to anyone unless it is money I could afford to lose - and if I did I feel like I'd have to own it as my own poor judgement.

AIBU to think the ladies should repay the money themselves or declare bankruptcy, not setup a 'go fund me' page and take it as a lesson learned?

@cuno but those amount were in dollars. I'm still not sure why everything was referred to as dollars in the series, not pounds or euros.

The GoFundMe is in pounds. 600kUS dollars is a lot less than 600k UKP.

Were they gold diggers? Why would it be wrong if they were? It's no different from chasing any other career

Eh? Of course it’s different to ‘any other career’. Gold digging is skin to prostitution. Being the trophy girlfriend in exchange for money and lifestyle that you couldn’t provide for yourself. Being at the mercy of the man who can drop you at any stage and leave you penniless. And you think that’s ‘no different’ to pursuing an education and a career in law, medicine, whatever, which would allow you support yourself comfortably, if not extravagantly? Really? That’s before we even get to talking about self-respect and self-esteem.

Bankruptcy isn't an easy option that wipes your debts. It comes with numerous restrictions for a long time. If I had lost a huge amount of money, even if it was through my own foolishness, I'd certainly try all other possible avenues first. Bankruptcy is generally a last resort.

🤷‍♀️ I think the gofundme is fine. You don’t have to donate, and people can choose to.

I also think it’s cruel to blanket judge people who were manipulated under the guise of a relationship. After leaving the relationship with my ex I now look back and think “I can’t believe he manipulated me into XYZ” because there’s no way I’d fall for that now.

Honestly a bit of empathy costs nothing and if you don’t want to donate, don’t, but saying that they should just take the losses on the chin is a bit harsh when they have the option to ask for help which no one is obligated to provide.

Gold digging is skin to prostitution. Being the trophy girlfriend in exchange for money and lifestyle that you couldn’t provide for yourself.

How many women on here say they can't leave their partners because of financial reasons?

Being at the mercy of the man who can drop you at any stage and leave you penniless.

And not to mention that!

Are we so harsh on all of them?

@Charlize43

Their heads were turned because they believed that he was of the Leviev billionaire family and also they seemed to be women preoccupied with a certain type of lifestyle.

The thing that struck me is why they'd lend him money instead of asking him to ask his supposedly fabulously rich family?

This.

If he was working for the family business, he would also have work credit cards for business expenses, which the company would replace if there was a problem. IIRC he told Cecile it would take two weeks to get new credit cards, and she believed that. 🤦‍♀️ You can get replacement cards in about 24 hours!

@sammylady37
But it's taken them 3 or 4 years to start the gofundme, only after the publicity from the Netflix show, so that adds to my confusion... what have they been doing for the past few years with their debt situation? Unless bankruptcy isn't an option in other countries! I also do wonder what they got from selling their story in the papers and what kind of deal they got from Netflix.

I also do wonder what they got from selling their story in the papers and what kind of deal they got from Netflix.

Why should they not be paid for providing interviews? Lots of people are.

@DrSbaitso

Gold digging is skin to prostitution. Being the trophy girlfriend in exchange for money and lifestyle that you couldn’t provide for yourself.

How many women on here say they can't leave their partners because of financial reasons?

Being at the mercy of the man who can drop you at any stage and leave you penniless.

And not to mention that!

Are we so harsh on all of them?

I think it’s very different when you’ve been in an established relationship, mutually agreed roles and responsibilities within that relationship, and then things change, including the relationship itself and the financial situation.

That’s quite different to someone seeing dollar and champagne signs on a first date and deciding this is the man for her based on that- I can’t remember the exact quote but one of the women said on the first date she thought she could see herself with him for life or some such words. I bet she could. And we all know what she’d be called on here if she were male and he had been female!

I really can't find an ounce of sympathy for these women.

@shaneTwane

This is a weird thread. I used to think like this but now I realise why are we victim blaming? Why are we referring to these women as "greedy" and "gold diggers"? So less well off women should never strive to have a nicer lifestyle if one is offered to them? Poor women could never have genuine relationships with richer men? It all screams a bit stick to your social class or we will drag you through the mud if you ask me.

yes, I agree, it happens every day of the week and nobody judges the women it worked out for. But part of this equation is the men who will always be excused in their determination to 'buy' the youth in their encounters and relationships.

That's just seen as ah well that's what men do. But women are walking a line with this trade. If it doesn't work out, make no mistake they are judged.

[quote cuno]@sammylady37
But it's taken them 3 or 4 years to start the gofundme, only after the publicity from the Netflix show, so that adds to my confusion... what have they been doing for the past few years with their debt situation? Unless bankruptcy isn't an option in other countries! I also do wonder what they got from selling their story in the papers and what kind of deal they got from Netflix.[/quote]
Yeah, I don’t know but that is my suspicion, easier to get other people to pay your debts than go bankrupt and face the consequences yourself.

@DrSbaitso

Bankruptcy isn't an easy option that wipes your debts. It comes with numerous restrictions for a long time. If I had lost a huge amount of money, even if it was through my own foolishness, I'd certainly try all other possible avenues first. Bankruptcy is generally a last resort.

There's zero way I'd be in any position to pay off that amount of debt though! Maybe they're far more privileged than me, high incomes, and supportive family who are in the position to help. I just know bankruptcy would be my only option in that situation. I'm aware of the restrictions but it's not forever and chipping away at that level of debt would likely take significantly longer.

@DrSbaitso

I also do wonder what they got from selling their story in the papers and what kind of deal they got from Netflix.

Why should they not be paid for providing interviews? Lots of people are.

I didn't say or even imply that was a bad thing. I am genuinely curious how much they got and if it helped them clear part of their debts in any way.

I think it’s very different when you’ve been in an established relationship, mutually agreed roles and responsibilities within that relationship, and then things change, including the relationship itself and the financial situation.

But that's how these sugar relationships work too. I'm pretty sure both Donald and Melania Trump have always been clear what the deal is. Much as I dislike them both, I can't see that either of them has been dishonest with the other about that.

That’s quite different to someone seeing dollar and champagne signs on a first date and deciding this is the man for her based on that

You're oversimplifying. As I said before, it's a romance scam. If it were that coldly transactional, it would be an investment scam.

But still, why is that only the woman's fault? If a man tries to impress with his wallet, he's clearly scoping for a certain kind of deal, so why is it only the woman who deserves scorn and derision if she becomes part of it?

There's a very archaic line of moralistic, and sexist, reasoning here.

You could even argue that it's more honest than many supposed love matches.

I just know bankruptcy would be my only option in that situation.

Well there you go...you'd do it because you had no other option. If you did potentially have other options, it would be foolish not to look at those first.

Making money on the story seems sensible to me, if you can stand the public response. The production company and Netflix are making money out of your content, why should you provide it for free?

@sammylady37

Were they gold diggers? Why would it be wrong if they were? It's no different from chasing any other career

Eh? Of course it’s different to ‘any other career’. Gold digging is skin to prostitution. Being the trophy girlfriend in exchange for money and lifestyle that you couldn’t provide for yourself. Being at the mercy of the man who can drop you at any stage and leave you penniless. And you think that’s ‘no different’ to pursuing an education and a career in law, medicine, whatever, which would allow you support yourself comfortably, if not extravagantly? Really? That’s before we even get to talking about self-respect and self-esteem.

Countless women have done exactly this, found a rich man to support them, over the centuries. I don't see that it is wrong. It's what they want to do. Self respect and self esteem aside, that's yours, or mine, or their decision where that line is for them. I wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it. But the papers are littered with the wives and girlfriends of footballers who are quite happy to do it. It's what they choose to do. I didn't say that they were equal to doctors or lawyers in their motives, but it is their choice and it is not our job to judge them for it.

yes, shame for money instead of beauty for money.

I don't mean that in a harsh way but it makes sense. I wouldn't want it to have a legacy over my life decades in to the future.

Get back to the starting line. Put it behind you.

*But still, why is that only the woman's fault? If a man tries to impress with his wallet, he's clearly scoping for a certain kind of deal, so why is it only the woman who deserves scorn and derision if she becomes part of it?

There's a very archaic line of moralistic, and sexist, reasoning here*

At no stage did I say it’s only the woman’s fault. The thread is about the women and whether or not they should take some accountability. If there was a thread about ‘Simon’ I’d be posting on that about what an abhorrent piece of shit he was. Both parties can be wrong. By saying those women were at fault and were gold-digging, I’m not absolving him of responsibility for his part.

As someone said earlier, if he was unemployed, living with his mum, wore clothes from Tesco and looked for 800 quid to put a deposit down somewhere, they’d have been very unlikely to give it to him.

They wouldn't have swiped right, that's for sure.

@EatSleepRantRepeat

I can't believe there are so many people willing to excuse criminal behaviour. What benefit is there to society to blame the victims like this - this isn't a one off, it's a pattern of targeted behaviour and sophisticated fraud.

I'm sure if 1000s of pounds were stolen from your bank account through a cyber security breach that you would expect it back, not for the bank to start picking over every link you've clicked on in the last 12 months. Scam relationships can be just as sophisticated and actually harder to spot because they're coercive.

Not excusing his behaviour, people like him are scum, but there is so much information out there on this type of scam and its not difficult information to understand either.

Your example of a security breach and clicking on links is a good one really for this. I wouldn't expect the average person to know exactly how to identify a spoofed page from the real one. Some are very obvious, misspellings (numsnet.com over numsnet.com), but there are spoofed pages that are brilliant and really I would expect only someone with cyber security knowledge to realise.

There is knowledge needed for cyber security often. All you have to be able to do to avoid a romance scam is to be able to read. Most banks tell you while you are transferring money, especially to a new account, to check its not a scam. Victims are willingly ignoring this.

He is totally in the wrong for this, as are other criminals who do this. But the victims have to face the fact they messed up. Don't expect others to fix your mistake. That wouldn't happen in many other situations, like gambling. If they had gambled this money in Vegas or wherever and lost, you'd say they were idiots. They essentially gambled this money to him, they had zero proof he would pay them back. They have to live with this now, however crap that is. I'm sure they'll be fine anyway. Being able to give away $120,000 easily does not scream poverty to me.

This thread is a bit victim blamey. How sad.

Ha it copied the same example url twice, one was meant to be mumsnet.

Countless women have done exactly this, found a rich man to support them, over the centuries. I don't see that it is wrong. It's what they want to do. Self respect and self esteem aside, that's yours, or mine, or their decision where that line is for them. I wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it. But the papers are littered with the wives and girlfriends of footballers who are quite happy to do it. It's what they choose to do. I didn't say that they were equal to doctors or lawyers in their motives, but it is their choice and it is not our job to judge them for it

It’s their choice certainly, but I do judge them for it. I don’t find it easy to have respect for people, male or female, who aim to rely solely on the hard work or good fortune of others to fund their lifestyle, instead of making efforts to support themselves. You can accuse me of being judgemental or whatever because of that, so be it. We all judge others, one way or another.

@DrSbaitso

If they were such greedy, mercenary gold diggers, why did they keep giving money away while getting fuck all back?

I think they had (poorly judged) love hearts in their eyes, not pound signs.

But what first attracted them to a billionaire's son? Pound signs. He then got them emotionally involved through manipulation.

If you play with fire...