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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Tinder Swindler - victims should accept some accountability

343 replies

sometimespeopletakethepiss · 11/02/2022 21:03

I can completely understand how these ladies could have fell for this guy BUT what I don't understand is the lack of accountability for their poor judgement.

In my life I would never, ever lend money to anyone unless it is money I could afford to lose - and if I did I feel like I'd have to own it as my own poor judgement.

AIBU to think the ladies should repay the money themselves or declare bankruptcy, not setup a 'go fund me' page and take it as a lesson learned?

OP posts:
mallees · 12/02/2022 00:07

@VladmirsPoutine

I don't necessarily blame them because psychological abuse is very very insidious and entirely all-consuming. Having said that I am still astonished. £25OK.
I agree with you. Psychologically it is very complex and I wouldn't attempt in analysing it on their behalf. It is dead easy to spot the problem from the outside and criticise, everyone wants to feel they are smarter than this and that it won't happen to them. Well, shit happens, even for very smart people, and for many different reasons you may not be able to fully comprehend.

I think it is more useful to think about how can the young generation be better educated about these traps and how to spot signs of fraud. In particular in the context of the daff social media pandemic.

Cloudfrost · 12/02/2022 00:42

I watched it the other day and found it very interesting. I was very Hmm about her jetting off with a virtual strange on the first date. I mean if you look at it under a different perspective, she could perhaps consider herself lucky she is simply in debt instead of chopped up and sold for body parts..

I was very confused why he wasn't charged officially with anything with regards to the money he scammed the women for, or why he got released in no time from his home country and is living a high life once again.

mallees · 12/02/2022 00:43

Just to add. I blame social media.

Hello! Instagram and the likes are all about selling fake identities and fantasy. It's a common knowledge. And OLD is so popular, but sort of a bizarre behaviour at the same time. You can hear from the girls how Tinder-savvy they all are at creating the perfect profile. Not the real them. And "Simon" is not real too. What a surprise. People are being very calculated about what they choose to share, for good or bad reasons. On that basis, a bit bonkers to see so many still willingly engage and trust the process.

AChocolateOrangeaday · 12/02/2022 00:45

I think the people who fall for this type of scam are like those daft women who marry serial killers on death row having never met them.

Yeahthat · 12/02/2022 01:48

@EatSleepRantRepeat

I can't believe there are so many people willing to excuse criminal behaviour. What benefit is there to society to blame the victims like this - this isn't a one off, it's a pattern of targeted behaviour and sophisticated fraud.

I'm sure if 1000s of pounds were stolen from your bank account through a cyber security breach that you would expect it back, not for the bank to start picking over every link you've clicked on in the last 12 months. Scam relationships can be just as sophisticated and actually harder to spot because they're coercive.

Some of the most clear cut criminal behaviour was on the part of the women - for example, the first one took out an enormous loan by providing false information. I suspect that the reason he spent so little time in jail was because he never actually stole anything; the women willingly handed over money, in some cases defrauding banks in order to obtain it.
Yeahthat · 12/02/2022 01:53

@Journeynotdestination

They've also been on luxury holidays to Brazil and Greece recently, judging by their instas.

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 12/02/2022 02:02

He's a skilled, manipulative con man.
I got scammed once and gave the guy £300 before I was on to him and then he disappeared with the money never to be seen again. I fell for the sob stories and the promises to pay it back. I wasn't a gold digger - but I am a nice person who gives the benefit of the doubt when someone appears to be is in trouble.

Cecilie came across as lonely and desperate to be loved. She fell for the fairytale.

These women were duped by the photos and stories of him and his body guard being attacked. He manipulated their emotions using any tactic he could.

I don't blame them for being victims of a criminal. Life is about assessing risk and he had the trappings of wealth to throw off their ability to accurately assess risk.

Gardeningcreature · 12/02/2022 05:34

I feel like this about women who give their child someone else's name. Why? It's your child, you are the mother. You are not even being conned into it. You absolutely can see the facts that the probability of still being with the father of your child if you are not married to him is slim. In all likelihood by the time your child's is an adult you will not be together. You will statistically speaking be more likely to have had a child with a different man. So why not give the child your name? Now that is stupidity. It's not even an elaborate con. Yet we see women on here trotting out excuses such as he said he would marry me one day, I wanted us all to have the same name, really????
Even though you were told when you registered your kid that once you give it the father's name it can never be changed in the birth certificate.

cuno · 12/02/2022 06:18

@Gardeningcreature

I feel like this about women who give their child someone else's name. Why? It's your child, you are the mother. You are not even being conned into it. You absolutely can see the facts that the probability of still being with the father of your child if you are not married to him is slim. In all likelihood by the time your child's is an adult you will not be together. You will statistically speaking be more likely to have had a child with a different man. So why not give the child your name? Now that is stupidity. It's not even an elaborate con. Yet we see women on here trotting out excuses such as he said he would marry me one day, I wanted us all to have the same name, really???? Even though you were told when you registered your kid that once you give it the father's name it can never be changed in the birth certificate.
Well me and my mum have different surnames because she divorced my abusive father and reverted back to her maiden name, so even though she was married we ended up with different names and I'm lumped with one that has negative connotations. Yes I know I can change that by deed poll before you suggest it, but it feels weird and unnatural to just make a new one up and I'm at a loss about it right now.

I guess women should just keep their maiden names then when getting married... but what gets me is the number of women who get on their high horse about other women daring to give their child the man's surname, meanwhile they took on a man's surname themselves when getting married. I assume you're not one of those hypocrites.

I don't really know many people whose marriages last anyway, no more than cohabiting couples with children who split up.
To be honest though, I don't know why you picked this thread of all places to have a pop about it.

ivykaty44 · 12/02/2022 06:27

mallees

Con men and love swindles very much predate social media, though social media has been a tool they have used to widen the net

sammylady37 · 12/02/2022 06:48

I found it hard feel sorry for those women, tbh. Romance scams are not a new thing, they’re highly publicised and people would have to be pretty oblivious in general to be unaware of them. They were blinded by the lifestyle they thought he’d provide for them, ie gold digging.

As someone said earlier, if he was unemployed, living with his mum, wore clothes from Tesco and looked for 800 quid to put a deposit down somewhere, they’d have been very unlikely to give it to him.

OnceuponaRainbow18 · 12/02/2022 06:51

This honestly blew my mind!

DrSbaitso · 12/02/2022 07:05

They aren't greedy mercenaries who were just in it for filthy lucre. They wouldn't have given money if that were the case.

It's part of a complicated psychological scam that works on dazzling people. Extreme wealth is dazzling and impresses people and makes them suggestible, and goes well with a romance scam. It wasn't just pretending to sell shares; it relies on an emotional element and money goes well with that.

mrsbitaly · 12/02/2022 07:08

They thought someone they cared for life was at risk! Yes I would be stupid and spend money to save someone's life. Yes hindsight is a great thing they were blind sided by a very very good scam and they will be paying it for many years

sammylady37 · 12/02/2022 07:08

They aren't greedy mercenaries who were just in it for filthy lucre. They wouldn't have given money if that were the case

I don’t think I agree with that. They gave the money because they thought it was a mere drop in the ocean to him, that he had temporary cash flow/access problems and would pay them back without difficulty, as well as bring them along in this jet set lifestyle.

Would they have taken out loans for a jobless no-hoper?

Matpayhelp2022 · 12/02/2022 07:26

I actually had missed this until I saw this post. I also have very little sympathy and just knew what the women were going to look like before I clicked on the link. Probably why they are able to get these loans fraudulently in the first place and now people to send money via go fund me. I can almost guarantee they wouldn’t get that support if they were darker in shade.

Crazyhouse123 · 12/02/2022 07:33

Hang on... a man uses extremely sophisticated and honed emotional and psychological techniques to swindle women out of around $10,000,000 (I believe that was the total figure they advised in the end) and somehow this is the women's fault?! He has a "business partner" and a "bodyguard" and private jets at his disposal and preys on emotionally vulnerable women and it is their fault?

It doesn't matter if they were gullible, it doesn't matter if you would or wouldn't get on a private jet after one date with a strange man...what matters is that he was able to make them believe, almost instantly, that he was genuine and loved them.

He set an elaborate web of lies and deception, he had layers and layers of women sending money to pay for the lie. He even brought along the mother of his child with his child (can't remember if this turned out to be true or if they were in on it).

Were they gold diggers? Why would it be wrong if they were? It's no different from chasing any other career. Not a career choice that I, or many of you I imagine, would make but a choice nevertheless. It's not a lifestyle I would want, I love my home conforts and couldn't be bothered with it, but I can see why it would appeal.

And the women who had lied to get more and more loans and increase their credit limits, it's like gambling isn't it? You have lost thousands. You borrow on a promise that that extra money will get you back all of it. And you are then in a spiral of fear and debt and chasing that "win" and you are on your own. I mean...essentially Cecile (I think it was her) was sent fraudulent payslips from a genuine company in order for her to borrow more money.

As for the final girlfriend, while I applaud her ingenuity in selling his clothes and keeping the money, that is in effect theft. I mean she could argue that she was just getting her money back and he willingly gave her the clothes to sell to send him the money, but she is keeping it. I don't know who could claim she was stealing from as I imagine it would be difficult to prove who had paid for what, but still she is part of the fraud at this point. Surely? Not that I blame her.

Please don't blame the women for this. Were they gullible? Yes. Were they careless in their checks of his background? Yes. Were they vulnerable? Yes. Were they blinded by their desire to be loved by this "charming" and rich young man? Yes. Are they wrong to have done so? No. It could happen to any of us, maybe on not such a grand scale, but still. Some of you will be naturally less trusting, less likely to fall for a scam on this scale, more likely to smell a rat from a mile off and not go near a man like this. But that is you and to be honest he wouldn't have gone near you as he would have realised he wouldn't be able to fool you. Which is great for you but doesn't mean you have to be so blind to the fact that not everyone is the same.

They don't necessarily deserve sympathy if you don't think that they do, but they also don't deserve scorn and abuse because they fell for a sophisticated scam artist. They are women who fell for a man's lies and charm and lost massively because of this. I do feel for them. I have been in a lost and lonely place where I was desperate to have someone to love me. I was lucky, and not as young or as pretty as these women, and while I hope that if this had been me I wouldn't have fallen for it, who knows? There but for the grace of God....it could have been me, or you, or someone that you know.

Please don't blame the women, or the victims, because in effect that's precisely what they are.

DrSbaitso · 12/02/2022 07:37

@sammylady37

They aren't greedy mercenaries who were just in it for filthy lucre. They wouldn't have given money if that were the case

I don’t think I agree with that. They gave the money because they thought it was a mere drop in the ocean to him, that he had temporary cash flow/access problems and would pay them back without difficulty, as well as bring them along in this jet set lifestyle.

Would they have taken out loans for a jobless no-hoper?

They wouldn't have been dazzled by a jobless no-hoper!

It's not that the supposed wealth wasn't a feature. Of course it was. Just that it was part of a wider scene that causes the scam to work. How powerful must it have been for intelligent women to hand these sums over? It plays on money, love and sex...three powerful things. That's why it's a romance scam, not an investment scam. It's not as coldly transactional as some people seem to think.

Would we have more sympathy if it had been an investment scam, so they really did just think they were buying shares that would make them rich?

FTEngineerM · 12/02/2022 07:37

Would they have taken out loans for a jobless no-hoper?

Of course not.

I had a holiday romance once, got home and you never guess what happened… ‘his mum was ill and they couldn’t afford treatment’ I’d spent a lot of time with her and was fond of her.

But sorry, maybe I’m a knob, absolutely not getting into that.. ever. However ‘nice’ the time was it’s never worth ruining your life as you know it over.

isthismylifenow · 12/02/2022 07:37

Can someone explain to me why they are asking for double the amount of the money lost via the GoFundMe page.

cuno · 12/02/2022 07:47

@isthismylifenow

Can someone explain to me why they are asking for double the amount of the money lost via the GoFundMe page.
It's not double surely, one of the women lost 250k alone and it's 600k between the three of them. And I'm guessing that their debts have come with a ton of interest on top which really adds up! What I can't get my head around though is why they haven't declared bankruptcy... that's what I'd do, why can't/haven't they done this? You hear of people going bankrupt all the time and bouncing back from it all after a few years, it's shit, your credit will be fucked, but seems better for your sanity. Is there a reason why they can't declare bankruptcy?
Thorilicious · 12/02/2022 07:50

As awful as it is for the woman, I think that as long as the bank has completed due diligence, the bank shouldn't be expected to pay out.

DrSbaitso · 12/02/2022 07:55

Some articles make the point of how tough online dating is for women over 40, and how a fit, attractive and successful woman of 47 is still likely to have to look for men 20 years older.

You may say that's all the more reason to be suspicious of fabulously wealthy, handsome younger men, and you'd be right. But you can also see why it makes someone feel like absolute shit, and makes them vulnerable to someone who makes them feel desired, hopeful and cared for.

UserBot9to5 · 12/02/2022 08:03

I like to think I'd never have handed over money but I know I did fall hook line and sinker for men's own perceptions of themselves a few times on line. One character in particular, met him on line, of course, and he presented himself as a philosophy graduate, with a masters in some aspect of philosophy he did say, also interested in psychology, a plethora of religions, the tarot, Jung, you name it. He was free (no children) no x wives, he lived in Ireland to be away from his controlling family. In the end I saw through it. I thought, this is not a free man. This is a man with nothing to show for his life except delusions and bullshit he's woven together to make himself feel superior to other mortals. But omg, I'm embarrassed at how completely I bought in to his perception of himself.

sammylady37 · 12/02/2022 08:04

What I can't get my head around though is why they haven't declared bankruptcy... that's what I'd do, why can't/haven't they done this? You hear of people going bankrupt all the time and bouncing back from it all after a few years, it's shit, your credit will be fucked, but seems better for your sanity. Is there a reason why they can't declare bankruptcy?

No doubt I’ll be branded harsh for saying this, but I suspect they don’t want to declare bankruptcy. Because doing so would mean a lot of sacrifice and belt-tightening for a while. Why endure that if you can get others to pay your debts for you? They now want others, complete strangers, to pay for their lifestyles and their decisions- getting others to pay for them seems to be a common theme in their path through life 🤷‍♀️