Tinder Swindler - victims should accept some accountability

[sometimespeopletakethepiss]

I can completely understand how these ladies could have fell for this guy BUT what I don't understand is the lack of accountability for their poor judgement.

In my life I would never, ever lend money to anyone unless it is money I could afford to lose - and if I did I feel like I'd have to own it as my own poor judgement.

AIBU to think the ladies should repay the money themselves or declare bankruptcy, not setup a 'go fund me' page and take it as a lesson learned?

There's a reason all those Mills and Boon heroes are rich as Croesus

50 shades wouldn't have shifted a copy had the male lead not been a billionaire.

Ironically, given these women are being blasted as greedy gold diggers, these scams/manipulations frequently rely on making the mark feel obliged to prove that they're NOT shallow money grabbers, by forking out

This is true, though it still adds up to someone the "marks" hardly know - and in some cases have never even met - asking for money

I agree the psychology's complex, but it's not as if there's any lack of information/warnings out there about this kind of thing, so at some point it has to come down to the mark kidding themselves that "mine is different"
And sorry, but that's a choice

It is the money. In the case of the first woman, if a skint bloke - or just a plain ordinary man - turned up with a strange woman and their child on the first date - you’d run a mile. The only reason you’d put up with the odd behaviour is because he was minted.

I had a Google and came up with a woman who went on one date with the TS. She said he was on his phone constantly and wouldn’t engage in any real conversation, just throwing out compliments. Some women didn’t need much grooming, they were jumping on his private jet before you could say American Express.

@DottyHarmer

Exactly. I find the helpless victim narrative to be nonsense. I also think that the fact that they seem not to have shared the details of the situation with anyone - friend etc - proves that deep down they knew it was dodgy.

It is the money. In the case of the first woman, if a skint bloke - or just a plain ordinary man - turned up with a strange woman and their child on the first date - you’d run a mile. The only reason you’d put up with the odd behaviour is because he was minted.

Yes, and how many women would be happy to play 3rd wheel for a male 'friend' and his much younger model girlfriend if it didn't involve extravagant dinners and 5K a night hotels on Mykonos?

They are victims of crime. They might be foolish - they were deliberately picked because of their gullibility but they were stolen from and the man is now out from jail in Israel and living the life of Riley still as he will until imprisoned for more like 20 years and they are left paying debts.

He was in touch with loads of women (one not on the film knew on the first date he was dodgy so obviously she was not the kind he went on after as she was normal, like most of us, realising it was a tall tale). Just because some women are more trusting than others does not mean they deserve what is coming just as if a woman wears a short skirt she is not responsible for being raped etc etc. These women (other than the one with the child) who gave him money did not know about the con and they are victims.

Just read that nearly £900 million was lost to dating scams last year! That’s just in the UK. So, it seems worryingly common.

I actually applaud them for coming forward and actually sharing this and doing something to actually warn people. It's something not a lot of people would do because you would get blamed for being so stupid but these women came forward knowing that this would always shadow them. There's nothing wrong with wanting to bag a billionaire or be friends with one as they would have connections if the guy was for real although no way would I ever jump on a plane on a first date or would ignore the red flags and trust so easily. Being scammed is something that would eat you up with embarrassment let alone taking loans out that would kill you financially for the rest of your life and I think they are quite hardcore to come forward with it. I also like how they've formed some sisterhood with the victims and did everything to get his name out.

I deal with fraud complaints for a bank and romance scams happen much more often than you think. Most victims are too ashamed to tell family or friends but they’ll complain to their bank.

Do they? Are there statistics on this because I'm genuinely interested.

I'm surprised at the number of people I know who have family members who've been scammed who can't be persuaded to tell their banks. They also won't talk about it rationally with their families because the shame and stigma run so deep. Some of these people have gone into substantial cognitive decline or depression associated with the scam.

I honestly had empathy for them and felt very sorry for them too. Genuinely. But feeling sorry for someone doesn't mean they shouldn't take accountability.

I couldn't agree more.

50 shades wouldn't have shifted a copy had the male lead not been a billionaire.

Never a truer word spoken. Apparently, it's OK to be a douche if you're rich ...

@lenha

I actually applaud them for coming forward and actually sharing this and doing something to actually warn people. It's something not a lot of people would do because you would get blamed for being so stupid but these women came forward knowing that this would always shadow them. There's nothing wrong with wanting to bag a billionaire or be friends with one as they would have connections if the guy was for real although no way would I ever jump on a plane on a first date or would ignore the red flags and trust so easily. Being scammed is something that would eat you up with embarrassment let alone taking loans out that would kill you financially for the rest of your life and I think they are quite hardcore to come forward with it. I also like how they've formed some sisterhood with the victims and did everything to get his name out.

The "bag a billionaire" thing is exactly why a genuine one would probably not be on Tinder. You'd have to be suspicious of everyone around you - friends, romantic interests etc, and question their motives. Are their emotions genuine, or do they just see what you can potentially offer them and see you as a resource to tap into?

As someone else mentioned, another woman that he attempted to scam has spoken out and described him being on his phone constantly on their first date etc. We saw that the first woman was willing to get on a plane with him regardless - she wasn't interested in him, but what he could offer her.

Turns out that was actually nothing except financial ruin.

Nevertheless, all I can see in this situation is people on all sides who were playing and using each other in some way.

The girls lost.

I imagine the motivation for the documentary was financial, with the segue into GoFundMe possibly planned in advance.

I watched some true crime thing on tv in which a 60-year-old very ordinary woman met a handsome cardiac consultant with a ranch online. Of course it did not end well - fake profile etc. I am in my 50s and not totally gross, but there is no way on earth I would imagine a hot doctor with a ranch would prefer me over any number of options. If we met in real life then maybe I could wow with my fabulous personality but on paper/virtually it’s unlikely I would attract such a catch.

True, these women were attractive, but still you’d have to ask yourself why a jet-setting billionaire diamond dealer was trawling dating sites and why he was not conducting due diligence on women potentially scamming him . A genuine extremely wealthy man can have their pick of models etc that they meet in real life.

Friends and I have spoken about this
We can see how he is very persuasive
However if a friend I had known since I was 18 from Uni who I knew their family and friends and had gone through various trials and tribulations with; asked me for a loan of 1k - I would raise an eyebrow.

True, these women were attractive, but still you’d have to ask yourself why a jet-setting billionaire diamond dealer was trawling dating sites and why he was not conducting due diligence on women potentially scamming him . A genuine extremely wealthy man can have their pick of models etc that they meet in real life.

Because we keep seeing dramas and heartwarming stories in which this is true? In which addicts have always turned their lives around. In which love does conquer all. In which people come back from CPR with no long-term consequences.

We valorise people for believing in the power of love and how there's always someone out there for you and it can occur at surprising times. We feed into creating your own reality through your thoughts and the Rules of Attraction.

We never see the denominator or just how rare these outcomes are. We've skewed people's understanding.

Because we keep seeing dramas and heartwarming stories in which this is true? In which addicts have always turned their lives around. In which love does conquer all. In which people come back from CPR with no long-term consequences.

I don't 'keep seeing' these kinds of programmes but in any case, I'd like to think most people are realistic enough to know that "dramas and heartwarming stories" aren't real life.

These women believed this obvious con because they very much wanted to believe it. That's on them, not "dramas and heartwarming stories".

Very wealthy people and very cautious about who they get involved with and are usually not keen to marry any random they have just met either.

I used to do a public facing job and I once met a man who was trying to get a visa for his girlfriend to come from abroad so they could marry. She'd asked him for passport fees, air fares, money for her sick niece - made excuses about not visiting him because off family emergencies which she needed money for.

He was up to his neck in debt, convinced she would be coming soon and they'd be getting married and wanted to visit her but she kept putting him off because of family problems but couldn't wait to come here to live with him.

It was totally heart breaking. We did eventually manage to get him to understand what was happening but he denied it to himself for months even when his freinds and family were telling him. I remember me and a colleague went to visit him at home and explained very gently what we thought was happening and he literally collapsed on the floor sobbing in front of us. The police and his banks fraud department were astonishingly kind and helpful but it was just horrendous.

He was a victim. He genuinely believed it all and was completely wrapped up in this woman - phone calls, loving messages, long online conversations, even hand written letters sent from her purported home country. I've seen people crumble over many things in the course of my work but this absolute collapse was perhaps the worst. Fifteen years ago now and still sends shivers down my spine

I know plenty of attractive, successful women with men I cannot believe they are with. Married, using them for money, horrible to them etc. There seem to be more single women than men, women tend to want monogamous relationships whereas men sometimes prefer flings, some don’t have the time to invest in relationships so “settle”. So, I disagree that if he was skint this wouldn’t have happened. He might have met poorer, less attractive women and scammed less money but as an averagely attractive male - he still would have met a few.

So, I disagree that if he was skint this wouldn’t have happened

I think posters meant is it would of not happened in the Tinder swindler case because the women would not of looked twice at him as he would have nothing to offer them.

One thong NOBODY has mentioned on here either is “pretty privilege”. As a good looking female you get people saying “wow! You’re so beautiful!” Daily. Men fall at your feet. You are chatted up constantly. You become so used to the adulation that you actually start to believe you can pull anyone to the point of delusion. If your life has been safe, happy and with men adoring you why would this be different?

@Piggyk2

So, I disagree that if he was skint this wouldn’t have happened

I think posters meant is it would of not happened in the Tinder swindler case because the women would not of looked twice at him as he would have nothing to offer them.

Fair enough point taken.

I agree, I think they were too enamored by the money they thought he had to logically reason, why a millionaire would have to ask them for money.
Even if something went wrong, someone with that amount of wealth would have so many resources and contacts they would not need to ask for money from women in these financial positions.
It doesn't make any sense.

Anyone call fall for a scam.
These people are experts at social engineering.

Blaming victims is a fundamental attribution error.

@Diqgeneration

I know plenty of attractive, successful women with men I cannot believe they are with. Married, using them for money, horrible to them etc. There seem to be more single women than men, women tend to want monogamous relationships whereas men sometimes prefer flings, some don’t have the time to invest in relationships so “settle”. So, I disagree that if he was skint this wouldn’t have happened. He might have met poorer, less attractive women and scammed less money but as an averagely attractive male - he still would have met a few.

I agree.

The dynamic of TS is massively over blown and glamourised but it is essentially the same dynamic I have seen play out several times with woman I know socially.

1. successful professional meets new seperate divorcing man ‘who took his wife to the cleaners’ but somehow was renting, had a low level IT job and no professional qualifications. Ended up shared equity in house she bought for 500k

2. successful professional woman handed over her finances to a guy (from Tinder) who was living with his parents and in debt from various degrees that had not worked out. Again, now had shared equity with her in a huge property.

3. a family member who has given up her career where she could have made a huge amount of money to move into temporary accomodation witb a foreign temporary employee and play forever girlfriend for the past 4/5 years - not married and no kids.

All of these examples are of woman who I feel are all victims - just not in an glaringly obvious american express arab emirates santorini sort of way. All of these woman I know met these men online for what it is worth.