Tinder Swindler - victims should accept some accountability

[sometimespeopletakethepiss]

I can completely understand how these ladies could have fell for this guy BUT what I don't understand is the lack of accountability for their poor judgement.

In my life I would never, ever lend money to anyone unless it is money I could afford to lose - and if I did I feel like I'd have to own it as my own poor judgement.

AIBU to think the ladies should repay the money themselves or declare bankruptcy, not setup a 'go fund me' page and take it as a lesson learned?

@lemondrop21

It was the getting on the plane after knowing him for an hour that really baffled me. He could've been a sex trafficker or anything. If you're stupid enough to do that then you really have no hope.

Would they have got in a black cab with him to the other side of London if he'd have turned up looking a bit scruffier? Or in just a casual outfit? Most likely not. But because he had the billionaire image and the private jet they went with him immediately.

I really do feel for them because that would ruin so many lives but you do have to blame yourself somewhat.
I like the last woman that took his clothes to sell. She had something about her at least to get a small amount of pay back.

Yes, how unbelievably stupid do you have to be to get on a private jet with someone who have literally just met, and give them your passport details? And the whole, he had a little girl and the girls mother was on the flight as well - wouldn't alarm bells be ringing all over the place, that this was just all a bit fucked up?

These were grown women as well, not vulnerable teenagers? I can't fathom it at all?

Most young women are not like this now are they? He must have matched with loads of women that had better judgement than these women and who ran a mile almost immediately?

*I think ‘vulnerable’ is one of the most overused words today. It’s an excuse for all sorts of behaviour. I was in a vulnerable position. They took advantage of my vulnerability. What in particular made these women vulnerable? We’re they poorly educated? Living in penury? Had they zero friends:family/social supports? Were they mentally ill or did they have special needs?

I don’t think wanting a relationship makes somebody automatically truly vulnerable. If that’s the case, every person genuinely seeking a relationship on dating sites is vulnerable and should their capacity be called into question? Indeed, a good chunk of the population would be vulnerable by that definition, in which case the playing field is levelled anyway.*

Totally agree. Wanting something, even wanting it very badly, does not automatically make you 'vulnerable'.

And before someone comes shouting at me about 'victim blaming', I'm in no way excusing what happened to them. But their greed and ego allowed them to be scammed, and that, frankly, is their problem.

How can you say you're not victim blaming right before you blame them?

@DrSbaitso

And before someone comes shouting at me about 'victim blaming', I'm in no way excusing what happened to them. But their greed and ego allowed them to be scammed, and that, frankly, is their problem.

How can you say you're not victim blaming right before you blame them?

Because being a victim of one particular crime does not mean your motives and behaviour are not valid topics for discussion.

"Victims" don't come in hermetically sealed boxes. Everyone has been a victim of someone or something at some point in their lives. It doesn't define them. Or maybe it does on MN?

Another thing that struck me is the industries he used to fool his victims.
Diamonds, previously weapons, oil, mossad agent...
These are not very pleasant industries to be involved in at all.
If someone told me they were a billionaire from the weapons industry I'd run a mile and then some. Diamonds can be just as sinister if you are dealing them on that scale, not just running a jewelry shop.
But there are women who find this kind of money attractive. Doesn't matter where it comes from, he has a private jet.
It's not like he was lying about being a good person really. He was a diamond dealer with enemies who wanted to kill him.

Just the perfect money to marry into:

www.miadonna.com/blogs/news/blood-diamonds-in-2020-what-most-jewelers-dont-want-you-to-know

@shaneTwane

This is a weird thread. I used to think like this but now I realise why are we victim blaming? Why are we referring to these women as "greedy" and "gold diggers"? So less well off women should never strive to have a nicer lifestyle if one is offered to them? Poor women could never have genuine relationships with richer men? It all screams a bit stick to your social class or we will drag you through the mud if you ask me.

This is a ludicrous comment. These weren’t poor woman and he wasn’t a man who was a bit better off than them. He was claiming he was a billionaire. There’s “striving for a nicer lifestyle” & being an idiot because you want a private jet. People also find it shallow because he was otherwise so unappealing. Average looks & the most bland personality.

@Gardeningcreature

I feel like this about women who give their child someone else's name. Why? It's your child, you are the mother. You are not even being conned into it. You absolutely can see the facts that the probability of still being with the father of your child if you are not married to him is slim. In all likelihood by the time your child's is an adult you will not be together. You will statistically speaking be more likely to have had a child with a different man. So why not give the child your name? Now that is stupidity. It's not even an elaborate con. Yet we see women on here trotting out excuses such as he said he would marry me one day, I wanted us all to have the same name, really???? Even though you were told when you registered your kid that once you give it the father's name it can never be changed in the birth certificate.

What on earth has this got to do with anything? Did you mean to post on this thread?

Not a ludicrous comment at all. They were not wealthy compared to him)what they thought he was. Why should women not be allowed to date billionaires and want a life of luxury? It doesn't make them bad people or deserving of being scammed, manipulated and having death threats thrown at them. I have no interests in flash cars, mansions or swimming pools but I wouldn't judge someone who does like that lifestyle.

We can all say we wouldn't fall for it, but he successfully ran the same scam many times, and loads of women fell for it. So he must have been quite plausible. There will, presumably, have been a number of women who it didn't work with too.

I think, as some others have said, the fact that he seemed to be a target and live quite a dangerous lifestyle might have put me off! But I don't know because I haven't been in that situation.

I read the entire OP and was like, what's that got to do with Tilda Swinton?

@UserBot9to5
‘They were vulnerable in that they were looking for love with a suitable man.’

The key word here is ‘suitable’.

For most of us that’d mean someone we fancy, who is kind and solvent,
not workshy or vain or mean with money.

It wouldn’t mean a fairytale billionaire ‘prince’.

Though they did get the fairytale - in reverse. Their prince turned into a particularly slimy frog.
(Not that I’m maligning frogs - I rather like them.)

@Tobchette

Another thing that struck me is the industries he used to fool his victims. Diamonds, previously weapons, oil, mossad agent... These are not very pleasant industries to be involved in at all. If someone told me they were a billionaire from the weapons industry I'd run a mile and then some. Diamonds can be just as sinister if you are dealing them on that scale, not just running a jewelry shop. But there are women who find this kind of money attractive. Doesn't matter where it comes from, he has a private jet. It's not like he was lying about being a good person really. He was a diamond dealer with enemies who wanted to kill him.

This.

IIRC Cecile and Simon had been “dating” for less than a month when he told her that his enemies were tracking him via his credit cards. That would have been the most enormous red flag for me. No way would I ever want to be in a relationship with a man who claimed to be constantly on the run from enemies, regardless of how much money he had. What kind of life would that be?

Victims" don't come in hermetically sealed boxes.

I'm starting to wish some people did. Blame them or don't, but stop saying you're not blaming them right before you blame them!

Also, if his life was constantly in danger, why did he only have one unarmed guard? Why was he on Tinder? Why did he invite a woman he didn't know onto his private jet?

There were more red flags than the annual Karl Marx onvention.

@DrSbaitso

Victims" don't come in hermetically sealed boxes.

I'm starting to wish some people did. Blame them or don't, but stop saying you're not blaming them right before you blame them!

So do you believe that women are not responsible for their own behaviour?

Do you believe that these women's attitudes and behaviour in no way contributed to what happened to them?

"Victim blaming" is just another buzz phrase used to guilt people and shut down discussion.

Even if they were victims does that mean they have no responsibility?

At no point were these women in physical danger, there were intermittent meetings with him mostly out of the country. No one forced them to hand over money they didn't have, or to lie to their banks about it. There were more than enough red flags after a week of knowing him.

Being taken in by someone's lies doesn't make you vulnerable and I didn't see anything that showed they were vulnerable before they started dating him.

As for people giving money (93k when I looked this morning) well aren't they just the same as these women? Sending money to people they don't know to fund their lifestyles based on a story they don't know all the details of? It beggars belief that people watched that programme and then sent money to help them.

If that had been me the first thing out of my mouth wouldn't have been 'oh poor me' it would have been 'omg how the fuck could I have been so stupid'.

If they are so passive about their own part in it then there is the potential for it to happen again. You have to examine your own part and accept some responsibility for your own actions.

@shaneTwane

Not a ludicrous comment at all. They were not wealthy compared to him)what they thought he was. Why should women not be allowed to date billionaires and want a life of luxury? It doesn't make them bad people or deserving of being scammed, manipulated and having death threats thrown at them. I have no interests in flash cars, mansions or swimming pools but I wouldn't judge someone who does like that lifestyle.

They were gold diggers.... they liked Simon for his wealth. A poster mentioned they are attractive women so why had Cecile been on Tinder for 10 years?

Moral to the story do not chase wealth alone. The women had no genuine interest in Simons personality perhaps if they paid more attention to his character... if he was husband material they would of stopped and asked Simon about his parents? Why couldn't he borrow money from his own family?

This both works ways.... and until you accept that these women need to learn and take accountability for their actions nothing will change.

Do you believe that these women's attitudes and behaviour in no way contributed to what happened to them?

Think very very long and hard about that one.

@DrSbaitso

Do you believe that these women's attitudes and behaviour in no way contributed to what happened to them?

Think very very long and hard about that one.

So no answer then?

So no answer then?

One that might be too subtle for you.

But you think the concept of victim blaming was invented to silence you...

It's interesting to me that posters on this thread seem to feel that "gold digging" is on par with scamming in the morality stakes.

@DrSbaitso

So no answer then?

One that might be too subtle for you.

But you think the concept of victim blaming was invented to silence you...

OK, since you've got nothing to offer except personal insults and unpleasant insinuations I don't see any point in continuing this conversation with you.

OK, since you've got nothing to offer except personal insults and unpleasant insinuations I don't see any point in continuing this conversation with you.

There was never any point in you having a conversation with anyone.

But yes, you're victim blaming while claiming you aren't, and that's unpleasant. And blaming women for things that are done to them is a dangerous line of reasoning, and not because, as you think, the concept was invented to shut you up.

@shaneTwane

It's interesting to me that posters on this thread seem to feel that "gold digging" is on par with scamming in the morality stakes.

Is this what you would teach your own daughter? Because the women lied to the banks.... they comitted fraud themselves in the eyes of the law. They said to the banks they had spent the money themselves in multiple destinations. How very interesting you don't want to discuss that part though.

It's like when a child is stood by doing wrong doing.... well if you stood by you were just as bad!! (Some may argue worse). That's what I teach my DS and he's in Year 2 you cannot go through life blaming others. You are responsible. What good is it to say it wasn't me though? But you stood by and watched