DP has taken 9 month old DD outside without a coat on

[astroboy45]

Posting on MN because I'd just like to hear the opinions of others.

DP always gets DD in the morning so I'm able to sleep in until 8:30/9ish. I wasn't really feeling that tired so I came out of the bedroom to see no one was in the living room and had assumed they went for a walk or went to the shops or something. When DP gets back and pushes the pushchair in the living room, I see both of DDs coats on the table. I said 'what coat did you put on her' and he just looked at me like he'd been caught out and didn't say anything. As he's taking DD out of the buggy, I can see she's just in her sleepsuit. I said, 'you took the baby outside without a coat on??' Bearing in mind he has a nice warm coat on himself AND a hat. Yet DD has been taken outside with just a vest and a sleepsuit? He also picked one of the lighter covers to put on her which was barely on her. When he gave her to me, her hands, face and neck were freezing. I'm not exaggerating, she was honestly so cold.

My issue is, things like this isn't a one off. Last month I went to my mum's house and stayed over for one night just to have a break as I was exhausted. When I came back something told me to ask DP if he'd left DD alone at any point. One time I was at an appointment and called to check they were okay, DP said 'yeah she's fine she's sleeping, I'm just going downstairs to take the bin out.' I obviously told him he shouldn't leave her but that's just always stuck in my mind. Anyways! I asked him if he'd left her alone and he said he went across the road to Sainsbury's when she was asleep in the night. I said 'why the hell did you leave her? We didn't need formula, nappy or wipes so what was so important that you needed to get??' He told me he went to get Ben & Jerry's ice cream😕

I just don't understand. You always see people being told they're being precious and whatnot but this guy is so lax when it comes to DD that it's honestly a joke. It's like he's not a real person and doesn't consider ANY dangerous when it comes to DD. Taking her outside without a coat on in the middle of Winter, leaving her by herself to go and get ice cream. It just sounds like some sort of prank. I also had a post not long ago about him and his mum turning DDs rear facing car seat to front face when that's not even something that can be done???

I seriously need help. We're expecting again and I just don't know how to get him to understand that careless behaviour doesn't work when you have kids. He always used to be extra careful with DD and now it's as if he thinks she's 15 years old and doesn't need to be properly cared for or something. Am I the one being precious/hormonal or what?? Arghhh help me MN lol

@thewreckofthehesperus

The sentence that stands out for me in your OP is 'He looked at me like he'd been caught out'. He knew he should have put a coat on her and put his own convenience and laziness ahead of his daughter's health and well being.

I would genuinely be telling him that this is relationship ending territory and that you need to see him making active change in his behaviour. That he needs to be re-gaining your trust before the new baby arrives and that any further endangering of your children will mean you take steps in asking him to leave.

@thewreckofthehesperus yes this is it. If I was awake, he would have never have done that. All these things have happened in my absence and it makes me wonder why he'd cut corners just because I'm not there watching him. This whole thread has made me realise just how much I can't trust him and now I'm unsure what to do moving forward

Nannycam sounds terrifying

@nurserypolitics lucky in the borough that I'm in there's many many free parenting and support courses. I already access some but will be pushing DP to access these also. Especially as he's the one that's lacking common sense

@user33323

It sounds outrageous I agree. But our freezer is in our basement, which we have to go on to our balcony and down outside steps and through our garden to get to. By the time I've unlocked the basement, found what I need in the freezer, come back and locked up, it's probably the same time as someone who had a Sainsbury's directly across from their house. The risks are probably very close, (negligible) but one is acceptable and one is not. As for the coat, if the baby wasn't crying from being cold, and I doubt she was, it's fine. It won't make her sick, that is an old wives tale. My children have always resisted coats and not suffered from being cold. Try not to get into a cycle of blame and resentment.

She's a 8 month old baby...

And hypothermia is entirely possible. It was cold enough for her father to wear a hat and coat

@SeaToSki

Do you think you could get through to him by saying he has to make decisions about DD based on what he thinks you would choose to do/has seen you do? That takes away his personal judgement from the equation. Then I would try and run through some scenarios with him to build up his decision making knowledge. Eg you want to go to the park, its raining and windy, DD is toddling, do you go or not, what do you pack, what do you need to watch out for? If he is happy to engage and ‘practice’ it shows that he understands that he has been a bit lax and needs to build his knowledge. If he wont engage, that tells you something as well. Also try and not do this from a perspective of blame, but one of help/learning

@SeaToSki thank you for this. I personally believe that he thinks I'm overreacting in many situations so wouldn't want to do things as I'd do them however I'll keep that option in mind. I think the scenario thing is a good idea but my problem is, we can speak about that and he'll say what he thinks. But a week later I'll discover he's done something else that he shouldn't have done. I can't run through every single thing because things that I wouldn't even consider to ask, is something he'd do

I wouldn’t get worked up about the bins

[quote SleepyRich]@angieloumc

I don't agree that's 'really poor parenting' it's just different from what you do. I work as a Paramedic so am used to judging parents and the stupid things they do, but I always remind myself that everyone has their own viewpoint and culture, and what seems normal or sensible to me isn't the same for everyone else. I'm sure there's any number of things that you do with your children where we could point fingers and tell you you're neglectful or poor. - as car seats and coats have been referenced one I judge people for at the moment is people who put their small children in rear facing seats wearing coats/padded clothing, I've been to three incidents now (in 5 years) where babies have not been held in place since the seat mechanism is dependent on the shoulders not being able to slip under the belts which in little ones is easy to occur- this doesn't come up in safety testing as they fit the belts tight and don't put the test subject in inappropriate clothing.

I wouldn't say a parent was poor or neglectful for leaving a coat on for a child in the car, they've just not been aware of the risk. Risk is not always obvious, for example regards the dad in this case going out to the shop, the highest risk to the child would have been if the dad took the child to the shop with him (i.e. potential for being hit by car).[/quote]
are you kidding me-did you miss the story whe efour kids died in a fire because the mother went to sainsburys

My DH started out a bit like this, not to the point of leaving the house though! But if he wasn't cold or hungry it'd never occur to him that the kids might be. Take heart he may will get the message.

It fits that he has a controlling Mummy himself. He's so conditioned to having his needs met by everyone around him that it simply doesn't occur to him that he'd be responsible for anyone else. He's never been in a role where he'd got to truly think about the physically 'caring' of another.

It'll take time but you may well get him to understand. Have a talk with him when the baby is asleep. Make a point of Need to Talk to you about Something, don't just wait for the example to arise.

When addressing it acknowledge how much he loves her and is trying to do the right thing, because if you dismiss that you'll get bloody nowhere with it.

You could say something like 'you are a father now. You are responsible for keeping this person alive. Do you really understand that? If this child is cold, hungry or in danger under your watch, then that's on you. And on you alone. You are not minding this child 'for' me. You are minding her because you are the responsible adult parent. Do you understand that responsiblity?'.

whynotwhatnot you've tagged me, it was SleepyRich who said that, I absolutely agree with you.

Apologies whynotwhatknot, I meant to tag you.

I am totally with you.

If she doesn't need a coat, nor does he. He was snug and warm with a coat, hat AND walking (which keeps you warm). She must have been freezing.

And you never leave the house without the baby. I do put bins out with baby indoors but would never leave for more than a minute.

He's negligent.

I can only imagine how stressed you must be especially as you're pregnant again...

You're not unreasonable about any of it, not even the coat. I took my 2 year old to nursery today in her jumper, hat, coat and mittens, and that's exactly the kind of clothing the other children out and about were wearing. As were their parents; as was I. And where we are in the country is usually on the warm side.

@YouTubeIsYourMotherNow

I think my reaction would be no different to OPs on all of the above. DH has a much higher cold tolerance than myself and initially didn't get the point of layering babies up but we both quickly adapted by regularly checking on LO and having spare layers. I think what's done is done and would totally ignore MN advice that requires time travel to find a different father for your kids or a messy separation as a first resort. You know your partner best but some people really don't take well to being told they're doing something wrong constantly and react by being even more disinclined to take ownership of the situation to improve. Adding extra negative opinions from other members of the family might not help. Almost a case of "well she'll always think I'm a terrible dad so why bother trying?". He actually sounds quite involved with his kid day to day so I'd open the conversation with a positive to set a non-adversarial tone e.g. how much it means when he is making an effort to allow you to have a lie-in, how nice it is to see baby growing an attachment to him etc because of the time he puts in. Accept at face value that he does love his baby and express concern because the behaviour you're seeing from him is suddenly completely disparate from how much you know he cares for her and did at the beginning. Give an opening for him to get his word in. Is there something else going on? Is he overwhelmed? Does he feel a huge stress and shock at the prospect of having 2 in quick succession? Does he feel he has missed out on things for having a kid at this time and is dealing with the guilt of have some regrets? It could be a whole host of things as nobody knows your precise relationship or situation. Ask if there's anything you can do to help things within your capacity and if not, what does he think will help. Do you need to spend time as a family, maybe a short break to emphasise all the lovely parts of having a young child? Do you need a babysitter and time alone as a couple on a proper date? Does he need time for a night out with friends? I say all this assuming the best but with so little to go on with these threads, you have the better understanding of the situation and for all I know it may just be a LTB case after all that. Good luck!

This is a different perspective but thank you for this @YouTubeIsYourMotherNow

I feel like I'm all talked out but maybe I need to have one last conversation and phrase it this way. I hope something changes because I'm seriously all talked out

@Artichokeleaves

I agree with you OP, he needs to be around other fathers with babies who can model for him what a competent male parent looks like. An antenatal group is good, but I'd be prodding him to take dd and join a baby yoga group or music group or something where he will be supervised and told by a group leader how to interact with her, and will be hopefully there with a couple of other fathers.

Thank you for this @Artichokeleaves

I go to a baby yoga group once a week and he never wants to go. I'm starting to agree and think he needs to be around other parents who have kids of similar age to gage how the real world actually works

@irene9

My DH started out a bit like this, not to the point of leaving the house though! But if he wasn't cold or hungry it'd never occur to him that the kids might be. Take heart he may will get the message.

It fits that he has a controlling Mummy himself. He's so conditioned to having his needs met by everyone around him that it simply doesn't occur to him that he'd be responsible for anyone else. He's never been in a role where he'd got to truly think about the physically 'caring' of another.

It'll take time but you may well get him to understand. Have a talk with him when the baby is asleep. Make a point of Need to Talk to you about Something, don't just wait for the example to arise.

When addressing it acknowledge how much he loves her and is trying to do the right thing, because if you dismiss that you'll get bloody nowhere with it.

You could say something like 'you are a father now. You are responsible for keeping this person alive. Do you really understand that? If this child is cold, hungry or in danger under your watch, then that's on you. And on you alone. You are not minding this child 'for' me. You are minding her because you are the responsible adult parent. Do you understand that responsiblity?'.

@irene9 thank you for this. Another post where someone has hit the nail on the head.

He's so conditioned to having his needs met by everyone around him that it simply doesn't occur to him that he'd be responsible for anyone else. He's never been in a role where he'd got to truly think about the physically 'caring' of another.

I agree so much with this. It's like he doesn't realise that this little person relies solely on him (especially when I'm not around). He just thinks 'she'll be fine, she'll be fine' but one day she may not be fine. I also agree a lot with your last paragraph and will be using that approach to speak to him later on. Thanks so much

@26dX

Oh my god I am lost for words.

I would be furious.

Does he know about the one more extra layer than us?

Leaving her on her own!!! I can't even comprehend? What if she woke and started crying/ chocking/ ANYTHING??? Bizarre behaviour.

Have you tried to have a chat about this? He can't go leaving your new baby alone at say 4 weeks because he wants ice cream

This is a very anxious response.

I agree it's not ideal but babies are robust. With my first I was super anxious and later I needed mental health support. I don't think the extreme panic that often coincides with our children is helpful. There are things worthy of panic but this isn't one of them.

He's happy to take the baby for a walk.

This is evidence of him 'trying' according to a PP. Is the bar for fathers really this low?! Jesus.

@ambushedbywine I don't think it is. The baby could've climbed out the cot? Anything literally could've happened ... but strange you think that. As parents we worry about anything happening to our babies, this man clearly is lacking some common sense.

Thanks though.

ambushedbywine you think it's an anxious response to leaving a baby alone? Babies may be robust but nobody should be leaving them alone in the house.

@Confrontayshunme

I knew a woman whose partner was like this. Her NDN finally reported to the police when he left baby in a hot car. Thankfully, she was fine, but SS took the view that he was a risk and SHE was a risk for not reporting dad herself when other things happened. I would tell him to look for a council baby care and first aid course to take, or he needs to move out before you end up with a harmed child.

Yes, I think it might be worth seeking advice about your situation from the NSPCC or social services. It sounds like you could use some support from an external official source. And he needs a talking to or a parenting course. You need to take this combination of things seriously, for the safety of your child and future baby, but also because it would be awful if his neglect and incompetence were to lead to you being tarnished with the same brush.

Good luck OP, with this and with your future birth!

I couldn’t get worked up over taking the bin out - how do you think single parents manage, just live with an ever increasing garbage pile?

The coats not great but as long as he learnt a lesson when it was pointed out and puts a coat, warmer blanket on next time then I couldn’t get worked up.

Leaving a baby in the house and going off to the shops is madness and negligent and definitely not on.

What actually is the point of him OP? He's going to bring nothing to the table as far as parenting is concerned as you clearly can't trust him to keep his own children safe. Personally, I'd be telling him needs to move out so that I could keep the children safe from him. He's choosing to be a shit parent and I couldn't tolerate that.

So you'd tolerate such an incompetent parenting both children completely alone instead, potentially for 50% of the time? Or hand then over to his equally irresponsible mother to take care of? The children would be at even more risk. I wish people would engage their brains instead of bawling LTB at every single opportunity.

Can you just talk to him about this in a non-confrontational way? Make it clear you don't want to harangue him or have an argument, but that you have some genuine concerns that you need to talk about. He's your partner, presumably he loves you and would want to know if something was wrong in the family that he can do something about. I really think couples need to be able to have difficult conversations without being scared of hurting the other person or causing an argument. Do it "out of context", ie. not as a reaction to something in the moment, but say "I have some things that are worrying me, and I'd really like to talk them through with you properly sometime. I think it's important we are on the same page about these things before the baby arrives". Tell him candidly what your concerns are. Suggest you come up with some clear, shared rules when it comes to the children, so there aren't grey areas - not leaving them alone, etc. I find that if you approach problems diplomatically, don't attack the other person (like, "you need to sort yourself out!") but instead make it clear that you are addressing this issue for the sake of a safe and harmonious family life, not because you want to bring them down, people are pretty responsive.

I remember your post about the car seat. That combined with disappearing off to sainsburys, I’d be reading him the riot act. Either he acts responsibly or you leave. With the baby. And he will never be left alone with either of his kids. He needs to shape up and now.