Is 12am too late to be hanging around outside for 15 year olds ?

[GreekGod]

Over the weekend, four of our DD friends all 15 years old were involved in an awful accident and two of the girls are still in intensive care and they are in a critical condition. This has shook our community to the core and I just can't stop thinking about the parents who we know really well. Basically a car driven by an 18 year old at a great speed who just got his license hit two of the girls and the other two had minor injuries. The accident happened outside a coffee shop that is full of teenagers every Saturday night (13 to 16 year olds). My DD was also going to go out that evening to the same place but cancelled at the last minute as we were invited out to a family birthday meal. The accident happened at 12am on Sunday morning and today at the school there was a general discussion by some of the parents saying that they would never allow their children out that late and that the accident would never happened at an earlier time. They talked about attacks and rapes, joyriding and all sorts. We do allow DD out that late. She is a good kid, achieves excellent grades and is very respectful. She is also mature for her age. But it got me thinking. Are we wrong in allowing a 15 year old out at 12am in a group outside in a town with other 15 year olds? My DD could have quite easily been in intensive care herself and I now feel awfully guilty in giving her this freedom that could harm her ? I am so confused. AIBU in allowing a 15 year old to stay out till after 12am ?

So sorry to hear about the awful accident. That’s terrible and I hope everyone makes a good recovery. I don’t think the youngsters or their parents are in any way to blame for what happened.

I don’t allow my 16 year old DD out at that time, unless she is at a friend’s home. I wouldn’t be comfortable with her being out and about so late at night. Luckily, she has never asked so it hasn’t been an issue thus far. If she goes out to just ‘hang out’, ie walking around the street, in a park or on the beach, I would usually want her home by about 10. Maybe a bit later in the summer when the evenings are lighter.

Greece isnt really comparable to the UK. Time here is erroneous, car accidents happen all the time. A couple walking home at 7pm near me were killed in similar circumstances.

As for the pp saying Safeguarding at school would be interested, bollocks. In what, they are at a coffee shop and you know where they are and pick them up.

I am probably a bit over protective, but I’m ok with that.

I think it is difficult for anyone to say if they do not know or have experience of the country and culture. When I was 15 my mum used to drop me off outside the ritzy and I’d stay there with friends until 2am and we’d make our way via taxi home. At 17 I had my first holiday away with friends to Turkey and by 18 I had a year out living in south east Asia teaching English. I can’t imagine letting my DD out by the time she gets to 15 but I don’t see why she should have less freedom to learn from her own mistakes than I did.
Cafe culture is very different from our pub culture here. I think it sounds fine.

My 15 year old absolutely isn’t allowed out that late. However, the accident could have happened at any time of day or night

I let my 15 year old stay out until 11/11:30 on the odd occasion for a party or particularly event like late cinema but he's not allowed to hang around outside past 9:30. I'd rather he bought a group of friends back to ours if they are desperate to hang out for longer but definitely not random waiting for trouble to either find them or they go looking.

18 and 21 are adults

Where I live, no. But by midnight my town centre is full of laity drunks and fisticuffs. I don’t let my 15 year old into town at night unless they have a plan like cinema or bowling.

But it doesn’t sound like the OPs set up is quite the same.

I wouldn’t be judging parents who are already in a terrible situation though.

No way would I allow my dd out that late at 15!! I don’t even like being out so late as don’t feel safe!

Very very much so

I think it depends where you live. I'm in the UK but in a very safe and sleepy town, I would let DD (15) do this on a non school night if she was with a group of friends. I can't see the problem with being at a cafe late when she doesn't have to get up the next morning. But I don't mind if she's wandering around with her mates either, which I know some people don't like.

I would never have been allowed to be out at midnight just wandering the streets. If I was at a friend's house to stay over or something fine, but not just 'out'. I wouldn't be happy with DD doing this either.

No. Ds1 is in lower 6th so is 16. He is allowed out to parties/get togethers at houses if we know where he is until 12.30. He wouldn’t be allowed to just be hanging out in town.

So no, YANBU.

No, I wouldn’t let my 15 year old out in town, nor did I let his elder brother and sister. 10pm is their curfew, earlier if they have school the next morning - later if they’re at a friend’s house and I go and pick them up.

That being said, these sort of accidents can and do happen in broad daylight - and it’s not the time to be criticising those girls parents. I’m sure they’re feeling bad enough at the moment without the town gossiping.

@GreekGod

Thank you so much for all your comments. I should add that we no longer live in the UK but in a Southern European country where "cafe society" is very normal till quite late and the crime rate is very low in our town. But still I fully take on board all your points as to her age. She is such a respectful and well behaved kid but still I now need to rethink as very valid points have been made.

Yes, the coffee shop was open and the teenagers gather there and have coffee and milkshakes etc.

We also live outside U.K, in Europe. The kids most definitely stay out a lot later than the U.K.

Our eldest is 13, nearly 14 and all his school friends and local friends stay out until 10.30 on weekends, school holidays etc.
In the long summer months they are out until 12 or 1am when they don't have school.

Would I allow this if we were still in the U.K.? I really don't think so, not even at 15.
But here, it's just a different culture I guess.

Dd1 now 18 has no curfew but is sensible - once in 6th form rule was if at a party and I knew how she was getting home 12am on non school night at 16 and 1am at 17.

Dd2 is 16 and has same rules now she is in 6th form.

Both of them at 15 was no going out on school nights unless rehearsals or dance classes and 10pm at weekends and had to be collected

Midnight is far too late for a 15 year old to be hanging around outside, do you really need to ask?

The funny thing is that I would never have asked this question on MN if the accident didn't happen.

In other words, in our culture at the weekend, it is very common to have a siesta in the afternoon at the weekend, get ready to go out around 8, eat out at 9.30/10pm and then quite often for the parents who are out already to meet up with the teenagers or for the teenagers to join us (the parents) later. Clearly, this only happens at the weekend as the kids start school at 7.30am so on school nights they are in bed early.

For the posters who have suggested that they have alcohol - of course the 15 year olds don't, its a cafe culture not a pub culture.

@GreekGod

The funny thing is that I would never have asked this question on MN if the accident didn't happen.

In other words, in our culture at the weekend, it is very common to have a siesta in the afternoon at the weekend, get ready to go out around 8, eat out at 9.30/10pm and then quite often for the parents who are out already to meet up with the teenagers or for the teenagers to join us (the parents) later. Clearly, this only happens at the weekend as the kids start school at 7.30am so on school nights they are in bed early.

For the posters who have suggested that they have alcohol - of course the 15 year olds don't, its a cafe culture not a pub culture.

If there was discussion at the school gates about joy riding and so on, with some parry sayings it’s too late to be out, does that mean that there are concerns regardless of the culture/country about the late hour?

I think UK mnetters might find it hard to get their heads around what happens in some European countries, it's so far removed from the pub culture/binge drinking/tea at 6pm/bed by 10,30pm thing that happens here..

@Thunderpunt

I think UK mnetters might find it hard to get their heads around what happens in some European countries, it's so far removed from the pub culture/binge drinking/tea at 6pm/bed by 10,30pm thing that happens here..

Yeah, but OP is saying that the other parents at the school gates were opining that the kid's shouldn't be out that late. Presumably those other mums at the school gates are familiar with that happens in their country?

It's far too late. 15 year olds should be at home by 11pm on a weekend and 10pm on a school night.

@SirChenjins - yes, definitely. Good point. The lockdown has changed some people and some don't go out as much as they used to in the early hours and some after lockdown have become far more judgmental.

The late hour comment raised by the parents was that if the girls were at the cafe earlier rather than 12am on Saturday night then it would have been unlikely for them to have been hit by a car driven by a teenager.