Not all men..

[Jenna19871]

Spoke to DH about this tonight and he said ‘it’s not all men though is it?’

He’s right. It’s not all men. But I have experienced so much shit that wouldn’t be accepted nowadays (not tragic shit but just not acceptable)

At 19 my drink was drugged with rohypnol in the local night club, thankfully I didn’t drink it as it tasted ‘sour’. It was caught on CCTV. The man was banned for 2 weeks. 2 weeks!!!

I’ve taken the tube and had men put their hands on my butt/legs etc with me trying to move away. I didn’t shout, I should have!

None of these are awful stories but it just goes to show that when people say it’s not all men...but it is most women.

@Mollysocks

Yes I believe that too (sadly).

@honeylulu

Not all mendothese things, but ALL men benefit from the ways in which women are held backby abusefrom full participation in the world

Yes! Exactly this. And this is why it's so hard to make any significant change to the status quo. Because if women are given an equal place in the pecking order, that must mean that men are no longer at the top of it. And even most of the good guys don't really like that idea.

Exactly! Women have been demonised since ‘Adam and Eve’ always the seductress, the prostitute, the witch.

There’s a song called ‘Female of the species and it sums this up. The woman is at fault. No fault lies with the man. Men are blameless and women are the evil manipulators.

Youaeefakenews as someone else pointed out those are very specific examples and the experiences are based on working in the hospitality industry. What about in the day when you are going about your business things like walking your 10 year old daughter to school at 8.30 am a van with men sitting in the front stops at a junction to let you cross, then one winds the window down on the left side once you have crossed, looks at your chest and says, 'umm nice cleavage', laughing ensues with the other men and they drive off. I am in my early 40s taking my young daughter to school, who asks me what that was about. I realise the top I have on is showing a slight cleavage (hardly any, in fact I don't know how they even saw that from the distance they were at) so I start to think about that and question my judgement on my top. In all honesty that's 3 men partaking in that act really as the other 2 thought it was hilarious. It is really depressing to have to explain this stuff at my age to my daughter and how the world is even in 2022. I remember this other time I was talking to a Dad on the school run and this woman jogged past and he just seem to stare at her chest area again and was ignoring my awnser to his question. He may not have been but it seemed that way. I really don't think these day to day things feature much in Men's lives if they did why is my DH not worried about getting thw last train back from work, why does ne not think twice about the tops he is wearing or trousers. Do women in a van roll down the window at 8.30 am when he is taking our daughter to school and say, 'nice crutch' I don't think so do you! Never ever!

I'm reminded of Dr. Jessica Taylor's 37 questions to prove that systematic misandry doesn't exist:

victimfocusblog.com/2021/08/29/37-questions-to-prove-that-systemic-misandry-doesnt-exist-anywhere-in-the-world/

It’s funny isn’t it, my DP will say ,not all men’ but will insist on collecting me on a night out. ‘You’re not walking’ he’ll say. But yeah, ‘not all men’ 🙄

@Goldenbear

Youaeefakenews as someone else pointed out those are very specific examples and the experiences are based on working in the hospitality industry. What about in the day when you are going about your business things like walking your 10 year old daughter to school at 8.30 am a van with men sitting in the front stops at a junction to let you cross, then one winds the window down on the left side once you have crossed, looks at your chest and says, 'umm nice cleavage', laughing ensues with the other men and they drive off. I am in my early 40s taking my young daughter to school, who asks me what that was about. I realise the top I have on is showing a slight cleavage (hardly any, in fact I don't know how they even saw that from the distance they were at) so I start to think about that and question my judgement on my top. In all honesty that's 3 men partaking in that act really as the other 2 thought it was hilarious. It is really depressing to have to explain this stuff at my age to my daughter and how the world is even in 2022. I remember this other time I was talking to a Dad on the school run and this woman jogged past and he just seem to stare at her chest area again and was ignoring my awnser to his question. He may not have been but it seemed that way. I really don't think these day to day things feature much in Men's lives if they did why is my DH not worried about getting thw last train back from work, why does ne not think twice about the tops he is wearing or trousers. Do women in a van roll down the window at 8.30 am when he is taking our daughter to school and say, 'nice crutch' I don't think so do you! Never ever!

I’d love to see a sketch show/tv programme/ film where it was reversed and women did just that. So they can see what it’s like.

Yes but are women funny enough to pull it off- how many times have you heard Men say that women aren't funny! Again, this is the day to day stuff that men are just not subjected to.

[quote Tanith]I'm reminded of Dr. Jessica Taylor's 37 questions to prove that systematic misandry doesn't exist:

victimfocusblog.com/2021/08/29/37-questions-to-prove-that-systemic-misandry-doesnt-exist-anywhere-in-the-world/[/quote]
Thank you for sharing this

My OH was pretty shocked when I told him of all the low level sexual misconduct I’d experienced over the years especially in my late teens/early 20s. At least what I considered “low level” because it was just so common (being groped in bars/on the tube, total strangers physically trying to drag you to the dancefloor or into a corner, disgusting comments especially if you indicated you didn’t like being groped). Back In the late 90s it really just seemed like if you wanted to go out at night, that was just the sort of stuff you had to accept. It’s definitely not all men but it’s a significant proportion. I’d like to think it’s not so bad now?!

I’d love to see a sketch show/tv programme/ film where it was reversed and women did just that. So they can see what it’s like.

I mean, the two Ronnies did it.... (but the very fact that the idea of woman 'in charge' was deemed so hilarious just says it all really..) t

I made the 'not all men' point to my husband after a rant on the whole well what was she wearing thing. I felt bad ranting at him so I said I know not all men are like it. To which he replied 'yeah but how the fuck are you supposed to know which men'
Summed it up quite well.

It's not all men, but it's too many men. And if you take in the full range of behaviours, a much higher proportion than I think most people would like to admit.

Mollysocks Smack the Pony did a sketch but I can't find it!

It is not all men but it is so many of them and it is too many of them. Woman and girls lives are dictated I think to a large extent by dangerous men. I also think that men and boys lives are dictated by bad men. The amount of bad men is too much. It is a crime and public health issue for all of us but obviously much more so for women and girls. Male violence and criminality is a massive costly issue for socially and I think it is the number one issues affecting peoples quality of life and health. Much more important and significant than climate change.

Interesting that the two men who have commented on a thread about male behaviour towards females have wanted to change the subject.
Why is that? Do you want to point out that it happens to men too and as you're not that bothered (because the threat level to you isn't as high, because you are aware that women on the whole aren't as violent, strong or aggressive as men) or is it uncomfortable to admit and discuss the prevalence of poor male behaviour towards females and you feel personally attacked by people doing that? That by talking about it then you admit it is a problem and you may be complicit somehow and have to look at your own behaviour and actions and examine them, even though you feel you've personally done nothing wrong except be there?
Because that's the feeling women have too, you know when we're blamed for being attacked by a man because we were there, walking home alone from work, or wearing a skirt, or a top that showed a little cleavage, or had had a drink, or had spoken to a man for a little while. It's so ingrained that the woman must be at fault that even the police and justice system, who are supposed to protect us from men like that, question what we did to 'deserve' the behaviour directed to us before deciding that actually, the man was at fault. We have to prove that we didn't ask for it in any way shape or form before we are taken seriously.

Did you ask for that behaviour? Were you wearing tight trousers? Are you muscular and attractive? Did you speak to these women before they exhibited that behaviour to you? Had you had a drink? What underwear were you wearing? Had you had sex before with someone you met in a bar?
And if you answer yes to any of those, then by the standards imposed on women, are you sure you weren't asking for it? Are you sure it's not actually your own fault?

@Youarefakenews

Threads like these do the cause of Women no good at all. Believe me it is not ALWAYS men.

I am a man, I worked for many years in hospitality. You ask any bartender or doorman which sex causes the most trouble. I could just about guarantee most will say Women.

I drove a taxi. Ask any night shift taxi driver which sex caused the most trouble on the rank or in the car. Again most will say Women.

Ask any man who works in the above jobs if they had been subject to either intimidation or unwanted physical touching, I think many of you will be surprised when they confirm they had and that in most cases the perpetrator has been Women.

Ask any man in the above jobs if he has heard sexual obscenities during the course if his shift. I bet most have and a great many of them will have come from Women.

Recent newspaper reports this week showed two seperate Women working in schools to have had inappropriate relations with their students.

A massive amount of Women have seen a stripper. Yet Women will shout how terrible it is for a man to do the same and that it is victimisation of the female performer.

Frankly ladies, get out there and see how your own daughters behave when they are out on the town.

I'm a woman who worked for many years in hospitality. It was the policy for door staff to monitor the male to female ratio in clubs as it was well understood that when men too far outnumbered women on the premises, there was trouble. Men competing and fighting like dogs for the available females, basically. I have seen fights between men involving glasses, bottles and knives. I have witnessed a man literally kick another to death. I have stood at taxi ranks many times and seen drivers bypass males in favour of females. I have spoken to many drivers who have been assaulted and robbed, always by men. I have been groped when out socially and when working, including when heavily pregnant, and oddly, never by women. I have a scar on my face where a man punched another and they fell into me. In the interests of balance, i have also seen women being sick in the toilets and the occasional loud argument ( and of course because it's women doing this its considered so much more shocking, because the bar us higher for us). So with respect, you're either being selective with the truth, or your experiences are not the norm.

I'd be incredibly frustrated if my DH came out with this feeble - also pointless and irrelevant - straw-man defence. I've yet to see anyone claim that all men ARE like that. (Kudos to OP for raising this and devoting a thread to the topic, as it's frustrating, infuriating and quite distressing to see 'NAMALT' constantly bobbing up on threads full of women bravely sharing their stories of abuse at the hands of men.

My DH has a wife who was an abuse victim and has been willing to learn from my experiences. They have given him an insight into why women feel intimidated by men that he might not otherwise have had, and will adjust his behaviour on certain occasions such as ensuring he's not following a woman in a lonely area or a dark night, and will cross the street to avoid her. In these senses, yes, ALL men have a responsibility to rectifying a situation in which a horrifying number of women are abused and murdered at male hands. They also have a responsibility to openly chastise casual sexism.

I'd put it to him this way. Not All Mums Are Like That. But some, sadly, do abuse their children. I become concerned about a child but I don't intervene, don't ask the child if she's okay, don't report what I suspect to be abuse, don't witness abuse in the street and challenge the abusive Mum over it.

Would he claim that reporting this behaviour is my duty, because we all, collectively, have responsibility for the protection of those who are smaller and weaker than ourselves?

Or do I just ignore it, because NAMumsALT?

In the interests of balance, i have also seen women being sick in the toilets and the occasional loud argument ( and of course because it's women doing this its considered so much more shocking, because the bar us higher for us).

This is an excellent point.

*ask any bartender or doorman which sex causes the most trouble. I could just about guarantee most will say Women.

I drove a taxi. Ask any night shift taxi driver which sex caused the most trouble on the rank or in the car. Again most will say Women*

Have you ever thought why this is?

You’re a man. Men know if they cause aggro with other men there’s a high chance they’ll lose.

Men don’t cause aggro with male bartenders/taxi drivers or whatever because they’re men. You aren’t an easy target in the way women are.

I worked in hospitality as a teenager. Women don’t cause nearly as much aggro as men, and if they do it isn’t nearly as scary or threatening, because you know if a man chose to kill you he can. Simple as that.

Not all men.. but 99% of them. Enough where most women have been sexually harassed.

Am I supposed to believe only 1-2% or even 10% of men are the ones assaulting all women?

No… most of them. I don’t care about giving a disclaimer. If they get offended they are more than welcome to go sort out the men who are giving them all a bad name.

Why men always come out the wood work on these threads? Are they just registered waiting for a ‘not all men’ post to rant on or something? The only time I really see men post in here is threads like this.

Yes women fight and brawl in bars, yes women go to see strippers but do women kidnap men off the street and rape and murder them? Women are the weaker sex (as men keep telling us) a man can overpower a woman a lot easier than the other way around)

God, these male ‘not all men’ posters make me so angry… it’s basically, ‘ooooh women are flawed humans too, so that means it’s ok for men’ So childish. Yes we are, of course we are, but we don’t tend to kidnap, rape and murder. What women are putting date rape drugs in mens drinks, what women go out on an evening with the sole purpose to prey on men? What woman has lured a man into her car with the sole intention of rape and murder?

No doubt you’ll trawl up one example that was in the news 10 years ago to prove me wrong. In contrast to the hundreds of thousands/maybe even millions of incidents that happen to women around the world every day. 🥱

My dd20 did an assignment on sexual harassment on public transport and sent out anonymous surveys , the results were shocking , this coupled with her ex bf trying to get back with after finishing with her 10 months previously ,her own dad allowing her to walk home at 3am in the rain , and her having sexual comments shouted at her almost daily she is so so anti men . I have to remind her there are good men out there luckily her stepdad and brothers are examples of this.

What woman has lured a man into her car with the sole intention of rape and murder?

This kind of woman: Michelle Winter.

www.huntspost.co.uk/news/crime/godmanchester-rapist-is-jailed-6909364

Woman rapists are on the increase.

@Nomoreusernames1244

What woman has lured a man into her car with the sole intention of rape and murder?

This kind of woman: Michelle Winter.

www.huntspost.co.uk/news/crime/godmanchester-rapist-is-jailed-6909364

Woman rapists are on the increase.

🤣🤣🤣 I was waiting for that, thanks for proving my point.