Not all men..

[Jenna19871]

Spoke to DH about this tonight and he said ‘it’s not all men though is it?’

He’s right. It’s not all men. But I have experienced so much shit that wouldn’t be accepted nowadays (not tragic shit but just not acceptable)

At 19 my drink was drugged with rohypnol in the local night club, thankfully I didn’t drink it as it tasted ‘sour’. It was caught on CCTV. The man was banned for 2 weeks. 2 weeks!!!

I’ve taken the tube and had men put their hands on my butt/legs etc with me trying to move away. I didn’t shout, I should have!

None of these are awful stories but it just goes to show that when people say it’s not all men...but it is most women.

No it is not all men. My partner would never dream of doing anything to offend a woman. He just does not think in that way. We once had a conversation about this. He is 60 and has never wolf whistled or tooted his car horn at a woman or leered or whatever else men do, so no it is not all men.
However it is not women who give you the creeps when you are walking your dog alone and it is not women who jump out from behind a bush and flash their bits at you; and it is not women who use their sheer physical strength as a tool to intimidate and frighten a woman who gets on the wrong side of them in an everyday situation such as a driving incident or many others I could care to mention.
And then of course there is domestic violence and rape and murder to boot.
But some men are decent and unfortunately in a minority.

LifeInAHamsterWheel
"In my experience, it's not all men. But it's always men."

Yup.

It really depends on what you are talking about.

If you are talking about why certain behaviours happen at a population level, or what to do about them, talking about groups makes sense.

On the other hand if you are basically complaining about or characterizing the group, it's pretty normal that members of the group who the generalization in no way applies to should feel put out about it.

That isn't a man thing, women feel put out when people make similar generalizations about them, even if they are things that are valid statements at a population level, and so do other groups.

@Jenna19871

Spoke to DH about this tonight and he said ‘it’s not all men though is it?’

He’s right. It’s not all men. But I have experienced so much shit that wouldn’t be accepted nowadays (not tragic shit but just not acceptable)

At 19 my drink was drugged with rohypnol in the local night club, thankfully I didn’t drink it as it tasted ‘sour’. It was caught on CCTV. The man was banned for 2 weeks. 2 weeks!!!

I’ve taken the tube and had men put their hands on my butt/legs etc with me trying to move away. I didn’t shout, I should have!

None of these are awful stories but it just goes to show that when people say it’s not all men...but it is most women.

Those stories are awful but as women we have become desensitised to such behaviour.

sorry, stories is the wrong word. Experiences is more appropriate.

Why does he feel he needs to say this?

[quote Nomoreusernames1244]I read the law for hate crime.

Increased sentence if the crime involves hate toward 5 protected groups.

Race
Religion
Disability
Sexual orientation
Trans identity

Struck me that it doesn’t include sex. So if you assault a woman while shouting that you hate women and women should be in the kitchen, that isn’t a hate crime, and the sentence is less?

Shows how much the men in power think of women.

www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/hate-crime[/quote]
The reason women aren't included is because we are the baseline. It's completely fucking normalised to hate us, and treat us badly. That's what gender-based violence is, but if we admitted it was a hate crime we'd have to admit how much of society is built on othering and belittling women.

I don't know any men like that, but have come across lots, if that makes sense. Like non of my male friends, family, even any ex colleagues, but lots of random arse holes out and about

@Youarefakenews. I'm sure some women do behave badly no one can deny that. But your examples are very specific scenarios aren't they? Whereas most women have been on the receiving end of sexual harassment or sexual assualt or the threat of it and it's part of daily life. Not just a small group of women in specific jobs as you example. But women doing day to day stuff - walking to school or walk, getting in the bus , going shopping.

And when I say women, for most of us this stuff starts at around the age of 11 or 12. Do you have a daughter ? If so, if she is yet to get to around 12 you may have your eyes opened . The staring, the intimidation, the following , the cat calling all starts from about then. Everyday.

Your suggestion that woman are the main cause of issues is not upheld by the statistics given men carry out the vast majority of violent and sexual crimes.

@dontknowwhattpputhere

I wrote a poem about this a few months ago, through frustration that even the self-proclaimed "decent" and "nice" men would rather say "not all men" than actually listen. After all, does it really matter that it's not all men? Shouldn't men be horrified that men commit the vast majority of crime worldwide? It seems to just be an accepted unchangeable fact. Imagine the world if men self-organized to aim to lower male crime to female levels. Imagine they were successful. Does it seem impossible? Perhaps, but it's not surprising that women oppressed by men have little faith. Would the "Not All Men" crew believe in men enough to believe they can improve?

Anyway here's the poem (to be honest I think it's a little too nice to men :

Now, I love men, but I'm just a little bit pensive
On why some of you seem to get so damn defensive?
To be clear, I don't want to start a pointless debate
And I really don't want to stoke division or hate
Leering, jeering, peering men are the minority
Lecherous, convinced of their superiority
Mind you, the mere mention of these miserable men
Elicits protesting cries of- "Not us- only them!"
Nobody's accusing you of a sexual crime
Anyway, those accused are unlikely to do time
Really, I wonder, do you even care about us?
Eventually these derails make it hard to trust
Like you think it's just a silly exaggeration
If you haven't seen it, it's our imagination
Know that other men change their ways when you're not around
Empathy these days is paper thin on the ground
True, "Women too", perhaps you may desperately state
However, the percentage of sex offenders who are male? - Ninety-eight.
Any excuse blaming nature is feeble and weak
Thank you to the men who dare to listen when we speak.

Bloody love that 👏👏👍

Threads like these do the cause of Women no good at all. Believe me it is not ALWAYS men

I am a man, I worked for many years in hospitality. You ask any bartender or doorman which sex causes the most trouble. I could just about guarantee most will say Women

Sooo, they're hitting on women, groping them, raping them, doctoring their drinks and fucking them afterwards?

I drove a taxi. Ask any night shift taxi driver which sex caused the most trouble on the rank or in the car. Again most will say Women

Sooo, they're hitting on women, groping them, raping them, doctoring their drinks and fucking them afterwards?

Ask any man who works in the above jobs if they had been subject to either intimidation or unwanted physical touching, I think many of you will be surprised when they confirm they had and that in most cases the perpetrator has been Women

May well be and not OK, but do they go in fear of their lives on a routine basis? Thought not.

Ask any man in the above jobs if he has heard sexual obscenities during the course if his shift. I bet most have and a great many of them will have come from Women

That still leaves most of them coming from men.

Recent newspaper reports this week showed two seperate Women working in schools to have had inappropriate relations with their students

Not OK but fuck me: TWO??????

A massive amount of Women have seen a stripper. Yet Women will shout how terrible it is for a man to do the same and that it is victimisation of the female performer

Possibly they are not the same women. Refine your thinking

Frankly ladies, get out there and see how your own daughters behave when they are out on the town

Ladies.......FFS

"I'm sure if you looked at the statistics properly, you would also find that most victims of heinous crimes are also men. So by that rationale should all men be frightened of all other men?"

Why do men think they're sooo fucking clever pointing out that men are raping and murdering each other? How does that make what you lot do to us any better? Yes men should be scared of men as well, because men are responsible for the large majority of the awful things that go on in this world. What is your point? How does this go in favour of your #NotAllMen mantra exactly? It just shows men up even more

Frankly ladies

How condescending. What point were you making again?

My husband isn't one of "those" men, but a few years ago, when a state in the US changed "No, means no", to "Yes, means yes", meaning that consent means enthusiastic participation rather than just a lack of a refusal, he said that this was taking things too far. I may have reacted quite strongly to this. Because he doesn't get it. He doesn't get what it's like to know that 50% of the population are (in the main) physically stronger than you. He doesn't get what it's like to be the one who is always held accountable for any sexual contact - whether it was wanted or not. I've lost count of the number of times that men have put their hands up my skirt when I've been out, not taken no for an answer when I've politely declined the offer of a drink, or pushed for sex when it was clear that I didn't want it. There is still a culture (although am older and more invisible now) that believes that women don't know what they want, and need men to show them. So, if a woman says no the first time, you have to keep pushing - how many films have used the old trope of a man kissing a woman forcefully, for her to initially slap his face, before realising that she has been mistaken! Obviously she wants him really - thank god he kept pushing! Men don't see it, because they don't experience it - and think it's sufficient to say that they don't treat women like that.

I think it is (close as damn it) all men. It just depends to what extent their stepping on women extends. It may not quite extend to criminality, but very often it does and the perpetrators are quite comfortable with it.

Many 'normal' men engage in financial abuse and coercive control quite happily. More men engage in marital/relationship rape, sexual abuse and sexual coercion quite comfortably.

Many men are happy to use women's bodies, whether that's as extreme as using prostitutes (criminal) or using porn. Porn use also has the added option of persuading your life partner to engage in the degrading acts they've seen in porn.

It is many women too, how can it not be? We've all been brought up to use women and be suspicious of women.

@TracyMosby

Frankly ladies How condescending. What point were you making again?

The point that we are doing "the cause of Women" (sic) no good at all. Yes, it would be amusing were it not profoundly offensive.

@echt refine your thinking
I sincerely hope that he can.
Also taking on board your points and those of others on here.

I think it must be most men there isn't any other explanation.
2 women a week murdered by their husband /partner. This same man is not married to 1000s of women is he?
It is a lot of men.

@MintJulia

It isn't all men but it's enough of them, that increasing numbers of women just want to stay as far away from men as possible.

Which is terribly sad.

Where are these women? I wanna be friends with them!

Honestly though, I don’t think this is true.
Most women just seems to lower their standards even more.

@Gardeningcreature

I think it must be most men there isn't any other explanation. 2 women a week murdered by their husband /partner. This same man is not married to 1000s of women is he? It is a lot of men.

Absolutely. Sick of this narrative that it's this tiny minority raping, killing, sexually assaulting, harassing, beating all the women. That it's just some crazy random psychos making the rest of them look bad. If there's sooo many good guys why aren't they doing anything to fix this mess? If there was an epidemic of women raping and beating men, if there was an epidemic of violent misandry, I wouldn't be sitting back and saying well I'm one of the good ones, I'd be fucking enraged and disgusted and trying to get to the bottom of it. Where are the men fighting for us??? They're not, quite frankly.

Threads like these do the cause of Women no good at all. Believe me it is not ALWAYS men.

The 'cause of women'..... Jesus.

I am a man, I worked for many years in hospitality. You ask any bartender or doorman which sex causes the most trouble. I could just about guarantee most will say Women.

I drove a taxi. Ask any night shift taxi driver which sex caused the most trouble on the rank or in the car. Again most will say Women.

What you you mean by trouble? Because I think that is very different to what the women on this thread are talking about.
Nobody is saying that women can't behave badly BUT we're talking about violence and sexual harassment. We're talking about being frightened that men will rape us kill us.
It's nothing short of insulting to compare the two.

Ask any man who works in the above jobs if they had been subject to either intimidation or unwanted physical touching, I think many of you will be surprised when they confirm they had and that in most cases the perpetrator has been Women.

How patronising. You do realise women work in hospitality and are on the receiving end of intimidation and unwanted physical touching with the added worry that men have the physical advantage so might actually rape or kill us.
I'm not excusing poor behaviour from women but it's not the same.

Ask any man in the above jobs if he has heard sexual obscenities during the course if his shift. I bet most have and a great many of them will have come from Women.

Again, women are in the receiving end more often than not and again we have the added worry of rape and murder.

Recent newspaper reports this week showed two seperate Women working in schools to have had inappropriate relations with their students.

Clearly not acceptable but not really comparable to the endemic of male violence against women.

A massive amount of Women have seen a stripper. Yet Women will shout how terrible it is for a man to do the same and that it is victimisation of the female performer.
You're absolutely clueless if you think you can compare the two. Apart from the fact that most women don't routinely visit strippers you're completely ignoring the power imbalance and issues around human trafficking.

Frankly ladies, get out there and see how your own daughters behave when they are out on the town.
Frankly Sir, you can fuck off with your patronising mansplaining. You've just completely embarrassed yourself and you're clearly part of the problem.

I'm sure if you looked at the statistics properly, you would also find that most victims of heinous crimes are also men. So by that rationale should all men be frightened of all other men?

Thins just reinforces the fact that men are the problem