Not all men..

[Jenna19871]

Spoke to DH about this tonight and he said ‘it’s not all men though is it?’

He’s right. It’s not all men. But I have experienced so much shit that wouldn’t be accepted nowadays (not tragic shit but just not acceptable)

At 19 my drink was drugged with rohypnol in the local night club, thankfully I didn’t drink it as it tasted ‘sour’. It was caught on CCTV. The man was banned for 2 weeks. 2 weeks!!!

I’ve taken the tube and had men put their hands on my butt/legs etc with me trying to move away. I didn’t shout, I should have!

None of these are awful stories but it just goes to show that when people say it’s not all men...but it is most women.

I don't think this thinking is correct.
Men as a group are not responsible for other men who do creepy and inappropriate things. The men who don't do this are not responsible for the men that do.
Believe it or not, as a man, I have had many instances of inappropriate comments and touching from women, particularly when on a night out. Some of them would be considered sexual assault.
Are all women responsible for those creepy women who do exactly the same thing as men?

Thank all the gods. A man had arrived to give us his manly opinion. What would we do without him?

@Random65

I don't think this thinking is correct. Men as a group are not responsible for other men who do creepy and inappropriate things. The men who don't do this are not responsible for the men that do. Believe it or not, as a man, I have had many instances of inappropriate comments and touching from women, particularly when on a night out. Some of them would be considered sexual assault. Are all women responsible for those creepy women who do exactly the same thing as men?

But when it's most men taking part in this behaviour, of course as a group they need to take some bloody responsibility! And please remember it's mostly men who hold positions of power, so why don't they put those positions to good use rather than leaving us to fend for ourselves? And it doesn't help that ones who aren't doing the raping and murdering, are still being misogynists by watching (often violent) porn, financially abusing their wives, joking about rape, and whatever else. It's not like you have rapists and then the good guys who are so respectful of women. They're all a bit shit. And please bear in mind that this has been going on for centuries, and it was only in the last century when us little women were even allowed to vote. Women do not hold power over men in any comparable way, and there aren't statistics to back up a trend of misandrists sexually abusing men, so it's like comparing apples and orange.

*oranges

Not all men act like that. But the vast majority of men condone it, stand by and let it happen without speaking up

Also look at other countries in the world. Look at what's going on in Afghanistan for fuck's sake! You don't think it's a problem with men as a group, just a few baduns? Why isn't there a single society then where the roles are reversed and it's the women raping and killing the men and not even letting them vote or have an education or career? @Random65

This is such a good thread… thanks for posting OP!
No, it’s not all men but the perpetrators are mostly men and almost all women at some point in their lives would have been a victim of some form of misogynistic behaviour.
My biggest fear is trans identity (mostly men) have more protection than women when it’s women that need the safe spaces. It’s not a competition but the statistics speak for themselves (that is until men dressed as women have their crimes registered as female because that is how they identify)!
I want to do more to help and protect women and just down know how. I’m constantly educating my husband and teenage son so that’s a start!

@Random65

If you see a someone sexually assaulting a woman, or a man, do you call them out? These assaults you have experienced, how do you react?

Do you worry that if you say stop, that woman will call you an uptight bitch at best, at worst be waiting outside the club later to “give you what you want”?

Because the reality of being a female is men are physically stronger and we can’t fight back.

The other thing is men will listen to other men over women. If men called it out, every time, men will listen.

Classic example being a man persistently trying it on with a woman. She says no. She says no again. She says I have a boyfriend to make him back off, and he does. Why does that man respect another man enough to not mess with his girlfriend, but doesn’t respect the woman herself enough to back off when she asks?

Not all men and all lives matter and similar get out clauses are all so fucking obvious that they go without saying, and if all you've got to add to the argument is something so obvious it doesn't need to be said then don't say anything

It isn't all men, obviously, but it's plenty enough of them

This is just the same as saying ‘all lives matter’. Of course it isn’t all men but it’s only men who are able to rape and it’s mostly men who sexually assault, abuse, grope, leer, make women feel generally uncomfortable etc.

Men as a group are not responsible for other men who do creepy and inappropriate things.

So you'd tolerate it in your circle then? That's what people mean when they say that men are responsible, that they're responsible for doing something about it. Which I agree with fully

OP

Not all great white sharks attack humans, does he want to be in a tank with a few?

How can he tell which shark won't attack?

Can he rely on any shark to help him?

If a shark does attack will the others ignore it or join in?

* I*'m sure if you looked at the statistics properly, you would also find that most victims of heinous crimes are also men. So by that rationale should all men be frightened of all other men?

I'm not really sure what your point is?** You're saying it as though you are contradicting what I'm saying but all you are doing is proving my point, that it is men who are the problem

I think when they say ‘not all men’ they are thinking about serious and violent crimes only. The ‘banter’ and subjects that a lot of men chat about amongst themselves are also part of the problem. As is not speaking up in support of a woman or just calling out this ‘lad’ behaviour. You know, the ‘can’t say anything now’ brigade. They’re just as much to blame.

In the above case, it is most men, even if they don’t realise it. Not acting and not calling it out is supporting this behaviour. The type of behaviour that is rife in the Met.

Spoke to DH about this tonight and he said ‘it’s not all men though is it?’

Not all men do these things, but ALL men benefit from the ways in which women are held back by abuse from full participation in the world.

A lot of men, probably including most of those carrying out the assaults and insults, see women as a sub-species of inferior human. They have a role which is to provide men with sexual and domestic services and they need to be reminded of this and Kept In Their Place.

I completely agree that those men not acting it out but turning a blind eye are, whilst not instigators, supporting and maintaining those that do. It may largely be subconscious but it inadvertently maintains the status quo.

Plus there is also a middle ground of micro aggressions from the so called "good guys" a sort of "I'm not sexist but ..." in the form of assumptions that their career automatically should take priority, that their wife should/ will be the primary carer of any children, that if the couple are to share the same name on marriage it will be his (I have only ever known two men who have taken their wife's name), that they won't "see the mess" in the house as the woman will sort it out because they love having a nice home teehee. This all adds up to "I'm better and more important than being bothered with all that because I'm a man" ... which places the woman in a lesser position because she's ... oh ... an inferior subspecies of human.

Also, the men saying they’re scared to walk at home at night… it’s not because a woman is going to jump out and mug them is it. It’s a man they’re scared of.

Not all mendothese things, but ALL men benefit from the ways in which women are held backby abusefrom full participation in the world

Yes! Exactly this. And this is why it's so hard to make any significant change to the status quo. Because if women are given an equal place in the pecking order, that must mean that men are no longer at the top of it. And even most of the good guys don't really like that idea.

@Mollysocks

Also, the men saying they’re scared to walk at home at night… it’s not because a woman is going to jump out and mug them is it. It’s a man they’re scared of.

I got into an argument with a man about this once who genuinely tried to argue that him and all his male friends were actually scared of women when walking alone at night etc. Honestly, insulting our intelligence by making up this shit makes them part of the problem!

But when it's most men taking part in this behaviour, of course as a group they need to take some bloody responsibility! And please remember it's mostly men who hold positions of power, so why don't they put those positions to good use rather than leaving us to fend for ourselves? And it doesn't help that ones who aren't doing the raping and murdering, are still being misogynists by watching (often violent) porn, financially abusing their wives, joking about rape, and whatever else. It's not like you have rapists and then the good guys who are so respectful of women. They're all a bit shit. And please bear in mind that this has been going on for centuries, and it was only in the last century when us little women were even allowed to vote. Women do not hold power over men in any comparable way, and there aren't statistics to back up a trend of misandrists sexually abusing men, so it's like comparing apples and orange.

100% this!

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can understand that the small amount of inappropriate sexual behaviour carried out by women towards men is in no way comparable to the generations of systematic abuse, rape and murders of women perpetrated by men.

The power imbalance is still real although many men feel like it has shifted. However, when you've always held a position of power in society equality can feel like oppression.

@VaddaABeetch

Thank all the gods. A man had arrived to give us his manly opinion. What would we do without him?

In a thread claiming that men should act and speak out against other men, you try to silence a man. No doubt you'll go on to complain about men not speaking up even though you told him to keep quiet

@Random65

I don't think this thinking is correct. Men as a group are not responsible for other men who do creepy and inappropriate things. The men who don't do this are not responsible for the men that do. Believe it or not, as a man, I have had many instances of inappropriate comments and touching from women, particularly when on a night out. Some of them would be considered sexual assault. Are all women responsible for those creepy women who do exactly the same thing as men?

But have you been genuinely frightened that any of those women, if rejected, however jovially and pleasantly, were going to turn in you and punch you in the face breaking your jaw? Or push you over and kick you? Or follow you out of the club, overpower you and rape you? Or follow you home, just to make you frightened? Or strangle you to death because you'd said no?

The men who let their friends get away with creepy, predatory, abusive behaviour are part of the problem.

The ones who don't call it out immediately and without hesitation. Until men, as a whole (however benign they think they personally are) stop accepting sexual harassment of women as acceptable banter, acceptable collateral, acceptable until it impacts them, it will never change.

@honeylulu

A lot of men, probably including most of those carrying out the assaults and insults, see women as a sub-species of inferior human. They have a role which is to provide men with sexual and domestic services and they need to be reminded of this and Kept In Their Place.

I completely agree that those men not acting it out but turning a blind eye are, whilst not instigators, supporting and maintaining those that do. It may largely be subconscious but it inadvertently maintains the status quo.

Plus there is also a middle ground of micro aggressions from the so called "good guys" a sort of "I'm not sexist but ..." in the form of assumptions that their career automatically should take priority, that their wife should/ will be the primary carer of any children, that if the couple are to share the same name on marriage it will be his (I have only ever known two men who have taken their wife's name), that they won't "see the mess" in the house as the woman will sort it out because they love having a nice home teehee. This all adds up to "I'm better and more important than being bothered with all that because I'm a man" ... which places the woman in a lesser position because she's ... oh ... an inferior subspecies of human.

I believe there is a large group of men who really hate the fact that women are no longer subservient to them, there to cook, clean and mother them. Also I think that the same group feel emasculated by the fact that women have a lot of the same opportunities as they do. I feel this anger is taken out on women through anything from a passing comment to serious violence. I honestly believe this.

"It's not all men"
If you had a box of chocolates, and just one of them was a piece of poo, you would be wary of all the chocolates.
It's not my analogy but I thought it was a good one.

I've had this discussion with my boyfriend and he's in agreement. My ex would have been like your husband. 2 of my exes are sexist pigs..however, they didn't show it until I had kids. So they must know that it isn't right.