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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Taking older son into the ladies?

358 replies

Chichimcgee · 05/02/2022 16:14

He’s severely autistic, incontinent, anxious etc hes 12 but looks a lot older

There’s been two occasions where he’s gone into the men’s loos that ended up with me asking a random man to check they were empty and keep guard so I could sort my son out. We have a disability key and use that when we can but sometimes there’s not a disabled toilet.

I know he looks like teenager and it’s not nice for women using the loo and I do try to explain but there’s been a couple of toilet emergencies recently where I’ve been shouted at because he’s in the ladies with me. But I can’t go into the men’s?
WWYD?

OP posts:
DiddyHeck · 05/02/2022 17:45

@RedCandyApple

And if someone is using the disabled facilities and your child needed the toilet urgently? Even if there are facilities you cannot guarantee they are available when you need them.

Like you don’t ever have to wait for a standard toilet! 🙄

Of course you have to wait but if the disabled toilet is busy and a cubicle is free in the non disabled, why would you make an incontinent severely autistic child wait?
Original poster
Chichimcgee · 05/02/2022 17:46

I think honestly, I would make sure that the places I went DID have disabled facilities, the same I would if I had a child who was a wheelchair user.

Our lives are limited enough, I’m not going to stop taking him to the park or museums or doing other things with him, I don’t think it’s fair when he struggles so much already to take away things from him when he can’t help needing the toilet etc

I assume most places have a disabled toilet but sometimes there isn’t or it’s being used. We do have a radar key and a card allowing us to use toilets such as staff toilets in a shop etc and we do use the disabled toilet whenever possible.

I think I will get a lanyard and if there’s chance pop my head in and say my son is with me if we do end up needing to go into the ladies.

OP posts:
TildaRae · 05/02/2022 17:47

It wouldnt bother me OP, I’d just think he needed support and wouldn’t bat an eyelid and most of the replies on here are along the same line.

I don’t know why posters keep saying use the disabled loo. The op has already said that’s not possible? What’s the alternative? Letting her child have an accident.

DiddyHeck · 05/02/2022 17:48

@Chichimcgee

I think honestly, I would make sure that the places I went DID have disabled facilities, the same I would if I had a child who was a wheelchair user.

Our lives are limited enough, I’m not going to stop taking him to the park or museums or doing other things with him, I don’t think it’s fair when he struggles so much already to take away things from him when he can’t help needing the toilet etc

I assume most places have a disabled toilet but sometimes there isn’t or it’s being used. We do have a radar key and a card allowing us to use toilets such as staff toilets in a shop etc and we do use the disabled toilet whenever possible.

I think I will get a lanyard and if there’s chance pop my head in and say my son is with me if we do end up needing to go into the ladies.

I think I will get a lanyard and if there’s chance pop my head in and say my son is with me if we do end up needing to go into the ladies.

I think this is a very good idea either with or without the lanyard. Also because people might avoid using the hand dryers if for example your son can't handle the noise. I know in the past I've asked parents of even NT children if their kids are ok with the noise as some aren't.

Luredbyapomegranate · 05/02/2022 17:49

@eejervis

PurpleDaisies I think honestly, I would make sure that the places I went DID have disabled facilities, the same I would if I had a child who was a wheelchair user.
@eejervis

This is called ‘victim blaming’, please don’t do it.

The OP and her son have above average challenges, they don’t need to have their freedom curtailed on top of that.

Thank you 😊

affairsofdragons · 05/02/2022 17:52

I think lanyards would be a good idea.

If there are no disabled toilets available, I think you are doing the right thing. He has a right to go out, and as you're with him, he's not a 'danger' in the ladies toilets. Ignore others; I imagine it will be obvious quickly enough when they see the help he needs.

AliceMcK · 05/02/2022 17:54

It would not bother me at all, even if I was with my young DDs. Your quite clearly taking your son in with you for a good reason whether his disability or needs are physically obvious or not. The only time I’d have an issue is if he was acting inappropriately towards myself your my DDs.

Sirzy · 05/02/2022 17:56

If people have an issue with it then they are welcome to campaign for the venue to install suitable disabled facilities.

eejervis · 05/02/2022 17:57

I'm not victim blaming.

I know my challenges are not the same as the OP's, but I do understand what it's like to be restricted with a child who isn't NT (for us it's DD's severe dog and bird phobia which means our pool of days out is small.) I know what it's like to have to think and plan ahead and not be able to do certain things.

DiddyHeck · 05/02/2022 18:10

@eejervis

I'm not victim blaming.

I know my challenges are not the same as the OP's, but I do understand what it's like to be restricted with a child who isn't NT (for us it's DD's severe dog and bird phobia which means our pool of days out is small.) I know what it's like to have to think and plan ahead and not be able to do certain things.

FFS please stop it. Having a phobia of dogs and birds has got nothing to do with a severely autistic child possibly pissing himself, because a few nasty women don't want him in the standard toilets Angry
HTH1 · 05/02/2022 18:11

@modgepodge

I have to say I find these replies interesting, with the vast majority saying it’s fine to go in the ladies. Yet when someone posts about their 8 year old going swimming they’re told he must be in the men’s by himself, showering and changing completely independently as it’s unacceptable for an 8 year old boy to be in the women’s. Mumsnet is so unpredictable at times!

Clearly the answer is To use the disabled, and to complain if there isn’t one (unacceptable in this day and age). As someone else said, a sunflower landward might prevent shouting and unkindness if you really do have to use the women’s.

Big difference. In a swimming pool’s women’s changing room, there are likely to be naked women. However, all women using the ladies’ loos are likely to be fully dressed when not in the cubicle.
DiddyHeck · 05/02/2022 18:12

@eejervis do you minismise all disabled people and their struggles or just incontinent children with severe autism?

Electricbug321 · 05/02/2022 18:16

Christ, some of these replies.

OP, use the women’s if there is no disabled option, anyone who has an issue with a disabled child being in the ‘wrong gender’ toilet is an absolute cod piece

mumwon · 05/02/2022 18:17

I think for his & your sake get a lanyard & either you wear it or he does (if he doesn't mind) & than be prepared to stand up to others as PP says (but politely from our family experience it works better & I know you shouldn't have to but that's life, sadly)
Just say - sorry but my son needs to be with me - & leave it at that

mumwon · 05/02/2022 18:25

@eejervis I would love to know how you can prepare for this? please tell or didn't you read ops statement
& having a dc with autism doesn't mean you understand what its like to have another dc or more especially an adult with severe autism'. To quote Dr Tony Attwood (autism specialist) 100 people with ASD in a room & you will have a 100 different presentations but they all have similarities in differing degrees. People are a hell of a lot less sympathetic with adults & I would say even more so with male adults (ditto with LD)

eejervis · 05/02/2022 18:31

@DiddyHeck do you know what, a lot of the toilets that the OP takes her son in we wouldn't even be able to be there in the first place because of DD's anxieties. Beaches, parks, forget it. You are aware that phobias are more prevalent amongst people with autism? You're the one minimising other people's struggles.

liveforsummer · 05/02/2022 18:31

OP, use the women’s if there is no disabled option, anyone who has an issue with a disabled child being in the ‘wrong gender’ toilet is an absolute cod piece

So woman with a level of trauma that means they do not/are unable to react rationally in this sort of situation are 'cod piece'. Because realistically this is likely to be who has an issue. Unfortunately women with the likes of PTSD caused by men or older boys are not particularly uncommon

Moonface123 · 05/02/2022 18:32

It wouldn' t bother me at all.
Some people have zero empathy.

nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut · 05/02/2022 18:34

FFS please stop it. Having a phobia of dogs and birds has got nothing to do with a severely autistic child possibly pissing himself, because a few nasty women don't want him in the standard toilets angry

*anyone who has an issue with a disabled child being in the ‘wrong gender’ toilet is an absolute cod piece"

It's not about nasty women though is it?

As I said, I'd probably be OK with some warning that he was there but just coming face to face with a teenager in the ladies, I'd end up having a full on flashback/panic attack and if her DS was between me and the door, he would likely be injured.

At the very least he would be frightened and I would be terrified and retraumatised.

Do his needs then come before mine? Even though its a ladies and I am female and he is male? I don't think they do. That doesn't make me nasty. It's more complicated than that. No-one here is wrong.

It's unacceptable for a teen boy to be in the ladies.

It's also unacceptable for him not to be able to safely use the toilet. It's disgraceful that he is left with no option but the ladies and there needs to be more accessible toilets. In the meantime he will have to continue using the ladies with his mum but don't you dare call people nasty when you have no idea of their circumstances.

Sirzy · 05/02/2022 18:39

No parent wants to have to take their teen son into the ladies toilets. Having to have their mum help with toileting is undignified enough without then having to use the ladies too.

It’s safe to say if someone has to do this it’s a last resort.

DiddyHeck · 05/02/2022 18:41

[quote eejervis]@DiddyHeck do you know what, a lot of the toilets that the OP takes her son in we wouldn't even be able to be there in the first place because of DD's anxieties. Beaches, parks, forget it. You are aware that phobias are more prevalent amongst people with autism? You're the one minimising other people's struggles.

[/quote]
No mate, it really is you. Let me just remind you of what you said Hmm

I think honestly, I would make sure that the places I went DID have disabled facilities, the same I would if I had a child who was a wheelchair user.

stuffedcookie · 05/02/2022 18:44

I think if I saw a teenager (even if they looked a little older) in a bathroom with his mother I would assume there is a good reason for it and them being in a cubicle while I was in a cubicle wouldn't make a bit of difference to me. I wouldn't need an explanation and I think it's appalling that anyone would challenge you.

Roselilly36 · 05/02/2022 18:44

I am disabled (MS), I am not suggesting anyone should buy a radar key, unless they are entitled to do so @PurpleDaisies not every disability is visible. OP sounds more than entitled to use whatever toilet she needs with her son. But unfortunately, many people don’t recognise even in 2022 that not every disability is visible their problem, not yours.

DiddyHeck · 05/02/2022 18:47

@nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut

FFS please stop it. Having a phobia of dogs and birds has got nothing to do with a severely autistic child possibly pissing himself, because a few nasty women don't want him in the standard toilets angry

*anyone who has an issue with a disabled child being in the ‘wrong gender’ toilet is an absolute cod piece"

It's not about nasty women though is it?

As I said, I'd probably be OK with some warning that he was there but just coming face to face with a teenager in the ladies, I'd end up having a full on flashback/panic attack and if her DS was between me and the door, he would likely be injured.

At the very least he would be frightened and I would be terrified and retraumatised.

Do his needs then come before mine? Even though its a ladies and I am female and he is male? I don't think they do. That doesn't make me nasty. It's more complicated than that. No-one here is wrong.

It's unacceptable for a teen boy to be in the ladies.

It's also unacceptable for him not to be able to safely use the toilet. It's disgraceful that he is left with no option but the ladies and there needs to be more accessible toilets. In the meantime he will have to continue using the ladies with his mum but don't you dare call people nasty when you have no idea of their circumstances.

In the meantime he will have to continue using the ladies with his mum but don't you dare call people nasty when you have no idea of their circumstances.

I absolutely will 'dare' to call people nasty when they're shouting at a woman who needs to take her severely autistic and incontinent child to use the standard toilets.

Because irregardless of how those adults may feel, shouting at that child's mother and in front of that child, is extremely nasty.

If you think it's not, it makes no difference to me.

eejervis · 05/02/2022 18:47

@mumwon of course I don't know what it's like for another parent and especially when the autism is more severe. I do understand what it's like however to lead a restricted life because of a DC.

My original point was just that not everybody in the ladies will be NT themselves and surely they have to be taken into account. Why does a disabled boy's needs come before the needs of a neurodiverse girl?