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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Taking older son into the ladies?

358 replies

Chichimcgee · 05/02/2022 16:14

He’s severely autistic, incontinent, anxious etc hes 12 but looks a lot older

There’s been two occasions where he’s gone into the men’s loos that ended up with me asking a random man to check they were empty and keep guard so I could sort my son out. We have a disability key and use that when we can but sometimes there’s not a disabled toilet.

I know he looks like teenager and it’s not nice for women using the loo and I do try to explain but there’s been a couple of toilet emergencies recently where I’ve been shouted at because he’s in the ladies with me. But I can’t go into the men’s?
WWYD?

OP posts:
AuntyMabelandPippin · 05/02/2022 16:35

For goodness sake, just tell them where to go.

He's clearly disabled and people need to be kinder. It's not like he can see anything when he's in the toilets can he? It's not like a changing room.

modgepodge · 05/02/2022 16:36

I have to say I find these replies interesting, with the vast majority saying it’s fine to go in the ladies. Yet when someone posts about their 8 year old going swimming they’re told he must be in the men’s by himself, showering and changing completely independently as it’s unacceptable for an 8 year old boy to be in the women’s. Mumsnet is so unpredictable at times!

Clearly the answer is To use the disabled, and to complain if there isn’t one (unacceptable in this day and age). As someone else said, a sunflower landward might prevent shouting and unkindness if you really do have to use the women’s.

PurpleDaisies · 05/02/2022 16:37

I have to say I find these replies interesting, with the vast majority saying it’s fine to go in the ladies. Yet when someone posts about their 8 year old going swimming they’re told he must be in the men’s by himself

This particular boy has severe autism. That completely changes the situation.

maddiemookins16mum · 05/02/2022 16:37

@sparepantsandtoothbrush

Does he have x-ray vision? I've never understood women getting all het up over this. They can't see you sitting on the toilet through the cubicle door!

Men expose themselves to use urinals and the OP going in to the men's isn't fair on either party

I agree.
UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme · 05/02/2022 16:39

modgepodge its fairly obviously because the OP describes a situation in which appropriate facilities are not available and a young pre teen who is developmentally closer to two or three than eight and due to being incontinent far less able to use a toilet without a helper than a typically developed 8 year old.

Mummytobe93 · 05/02/2022 16:39

I used to support young people like your son @Chichimcgee and if there was no disabled toilet and I had no male colleagues to take him to the mans toilet I’d go to the female ones and if anyone had issues I would just explain that I’m supporting a person with disability and they need to use the toilet. 99% of time people were understanding :)

Original poster
Chichimcgee · 05/02/2022 16:39

Thank you all.

He needs physical help and struggles with the noise/environment etc

A lanyard is a good idea.

We do use disabled toilets when there is one and I make every effort to try and ensure he doesn’t need the loo but he has no sensory feeling of needing to go and leaks so sometimes it’s a mad rush. Previously I’ve said ‘we won’t be long, he has autism and needs support’ and will use hand sanitizer instead of the sinks just so we’re in and out quickly. I just got really shook up when I was shouted at and didn’t have chance to explain.

OP posts:
Sirzy · 05/02/2022 16:41

If there is no alternative then you have to.

Ds is 12 and the only places that don’t have disabled toilets tend to be small pubs/restaurants so their is rarely anyone else in there.

Mossstitch · 05/02/2022 16:42

Ignore the shouters, they should be ashamed of themselves. Should be fairly obvious that there is a good reason why he is in the ladies with you without you needing to explain. Most women wouldn't object💐

modgepodge · 05/02/2022 16:42

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

modgepodge its fairly obviously because the OP describes a situation in which appropriate facilities are not available and a young pre teen who is developmentally closer to two or three than eight and due to being incontinent far less able to use a toilet without a helper than a typically developed 8 year old.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I think he should go in the men’s unattended, clearly that’s not an option. But I also don’t think it’s right to expect 8 year olds to go in to men’s changing rooms and strip naked unattended either, they would be vulnerable.

Appropriate facilities in both situations would solve the issue.

DiddyHeck · 05/02/2022 16:43

@modgepodge

I have to say I find these replies interesting, with the vast majority saying it’s fine to go in the ladies. Yet when someone posts about their 8 year old going swimming they’re told he must be in the men’s by himself, showering and changing completely independently as it’s unacceptable for an 8 year old boy to be in the women’s. Mumsnet is so unpredictable at times!

Clearly the answer is To use the disabled, and to complain if there isn’t one (unacceptable in this day and age). As someone else said, a sunflower landward might prevent shouting and unkindness if you really do have to use the women’s.

Are you seriously comparing a NT boy using a shower to a disabled boy using a toilet?
liveforsummer · 05/02/2022 16:45

Personally I wouldn't mind this, However not everyone will feel the same. Surely if this boy who presents as a teen can be in the ladies it's no worse for you to be in the mens. In fact far better as men generally don't feel threatened by women in their space in anything like the way women do with men.

Suzanne999 · 05/02/2022 16:45

In the ladies there’s separate cubicles —- it’s not like your son is going to see disrobed women.
If you go into the men’s you’re likely to see men using urinals ( which they may object to)
So I’d go with ladies unless there’s a disabled loo.
Knew a mum who printed out cards “ my son is autistic. He may make loud noises, his only way if expressing himself as he cannot use words” or similar wording. Perhaps you could have similar and if anyone objects just hand a card over, no need to engage.
I don’t think you should have to explain any disability or health condition but I know she found this shut up people who tutted.

AtLeastPretendToCare · 05/02/2022 16:46

[quote MrsWinters]@AtLeastPretendToCare

“Why do you assume you can’t go into the mens? Why is this worse than him being in the ladies?”

I’m guessing because with there being urinals men might have their todgers out and feel uncomfortable.[/quote]
Oh well we can’t have the men feeling uncomfortable now can we? Hmm

Yet him going into the ladies clearly IS making women feel uncomfortable as evidenced by women raising it with the OP. So that is ok?

Look I feel for the Op I really do. She is between a rock and. a hard place. I don’t have any great answers for her.

But as a general point (and not specific to this case) I fail to see why every time there is any form of conflict or needs/comfort it is women who are expected to be uncomfortable rather than the men.

2old2beamum · 05/02/2022 16:46

My DH occasionally takes our daughter out, but is becoming reluctant to do so as he feels it is inappropriate to take her into male toilets if there are no disabled facilities. Mind you he has had a few raised eyebrows when he uses disabled toiletsConfused

liveforsummer · 05/02/2022 16:48

If you go into the men’s you’re likely to see men using urinals ( which they may object to)

So mens feelings need to be considered over women's. Got it!

WhyYesYABU · 05/02/2022 16:48

If I saw you go in to a cubicle with your son I'd assume additional needs and that you needed to be there.

nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut · 05/02/2022 16:48

You'd be better to go in first and ask if anyone minds you bringing him in. Most won't mind at all but I was raped by a teenager, albeit older than your boy and have PTSD and if I came out of the cubical to be faced with a teen boy I wasn't expecting, the panic attack would be epic and possibly even violent if he was between me and the door.

With a warning that a lad was being brought in with his mum, I would probably ask that he wait till I leave or go into a cubical before I leave my cubical. Even just knowing he was going to be there and wouldn't hurt me would help.

germsandcoffee · 05/02/2022 16:48

My severely autistic son is 17 so I take him to the disability toilet but I wouldn't hesitate to use the ladies if no disabled toilets available!
Women shouldn't really have no need to have anything on show in the toilets unlike the gents who use urinals 🤷‍♀️

funinthesun19 · 05/02/2022 16:49

I simply can’t understand women shouting at you and him. It’s extremely unkind.

And I think it would be bloody obvious that a boy that age who is in the ladies being fully supervised by his mum is in there for a reason (disability). It’s not difficult to work out.

CentrifugalBumblePuppy · 05/02/2022 16:50

Someone upstream made a comment about “perfectly able bodied men strolling out of the disabled toilet” or some such.

Not all of us with disabilities look disabled. My crutches are a big old indicator of being on the wonky side of a nature, but you can have disabilities that require access to a disabled toilet (incontinence issues, colostomy bags, a plethora of other accessibility requirements), so don’t think a healthy looking dude (or lady) who is strolling of the disabled toilet couldn’t possibly have a valid reason for using it.

CorrBlimeyGG · 05/02/2022 16:52

It's ridiculous that anyone could object to this. He is not intruding on anyone's private space, that's what cubicles are for.

I'm sorry you've encountered difficulty with this OP. For some women the word hysterical is most appropriate.

liveforsummer · 05/02/2022 16:52

@funinthesun19

I simply can’t understand women shouting at you and him. It’s extremely unkind.

And I think it would be bloody obvious that a boy that age who is in the ladies being fully supervised by his mum is in there for a reason (disability). It’s not difficult to work out.

@nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut has given one reason why someone might not just rationally think this and be fine about it.
KeyWorker · 05/02/2022 16:54

I think in this situation it is fine to use ladies toilet. I think I might feel intimidated using the mens. If I came to use the ladies toilet and you were in there attending to your son I wouldn’t bat an eyelid. Sorry you’ve been shouted at, that’s not on at all.

Obviously the best option would be an accessible loo, for the sake of your sons privacy and dignity but I can think of a good few places to eat near me that just have mens and woman's bathrooms, no accessible loo.

KissedintheDark · 05/02/2022 16:55

@PonyPatter44

A child should be in the toilets that match the gender of the parent. A disabled boy like your DS should be in the womens toilet with you despite his age, because he can't safely use the mens toilet alone. Thats really quite straightforward.

Don't get me started on the absence of suitable disabled toilets...that in itself is a disgrace.

I agree with this.

If I saw a child, whatever the child's age, with their mother in the ladies loo I would bat an eye.
I hope I'm savvy enough to know that some kids/adults need looking after no matter what their age.