Taking older son into the ladies?

[Chichimcgee]

He’s severely autistic, incontinent, anxious etc hes 12 but looks a lot older

There’s been two occasions where he’s gone into the men’s loos that ended up with me asking a random man to check they were empty and keep guard so I could sort my son out. We have a disability key and use that when we can but sometimes there’s not a disabled toilet.

I know he looks like teenager and it’s not nice for women using the loo and I do try to explain but there’s been a couple of toilet emergencies recently where I’ve been shouted at because he’s in the ladies with me. But I can’t go into the men’s?
WWYD?

"I am still waiting for those who think it’s wrong or who post the “what happens when he is 20/30 etc” type posts to come up with an alternative for the OP and others when faced with this issue."

They don't care about women in the OP's situation.

I don't think the OP's son has a 'right' to be in the women's toilet but out of consideration for the mother it is compassionate to allow it.

i would take him in the ladies and announce he's SEN if it isnt obvious, I still take my 11 year old into the ladies no one has moaned yet but I am not going in the mens.

I'm not sure that telling women & girls "they have nothing to worry about" is fair.

Fear & trauma are not always rational.

What about OP - or other female carers - if they are forced to use the mens toilets. Surely there is an increased risk of actual physical attack from that, which outweighs feelings ( although of course they are valid too)?
I wonder what a male carer would do in these circumstances. Of course much less likely to happen as women generally are the default carers, but should he take a disabled DD into the mens or ladies loos ? Or only go out if disabled facilities exist?

@HouseOfGoldandBones

I'm not sure that telling women & girls "they have nothing to worry about" is fair.

Fear & trauma are not always rational.

This.

It's always the women being told off too and told to ignore or look the other way.

Why can't men be told off for being unaccommodating instead?

They don't care about women in the OP's situation

Of course that’s not true. But there are competing needs. There’s no easy solution that meets everyone’s needs. Most people agree (including me, actually) that the OP should take her child to the female toilets. However, just because MN posters are comfortable with it, it doesn’t mean that girls the age as the OP’s son will be. Even if they don’t need privacy at the basins at that time, or are in full cubicles that are completely private some will be discombobulated by seeing a pubertal male child their own age in a space they assumed was single sex.

Yes why is it a issue , your in a cubicle they are chaperone with a female so nothing to worry about

WhT do you mean by, “They are chaperone with a female?”

The safety of the disabled child is paramount here ,I cannot leave my disabled son for a minute when we are out and about as he has zero concept of danger
If I had to take him into a female toilet than I would it's not ideal ,and we need more disabled facilities ,but his well being is always my main concern.

Please if a woman is in fear of a disabled child / adult using the ladies with a female carer then sorry these ladies need to have a serious word with themselves.

@nolongersurprised

They don't care about women in the OP's situation

Of course that’s not true. But there are competing needs. There’s no easy solution that meets everyone’s needs. Most people agree (including me, actually) that the OP should take her child to the female toilets. However, just because MN posters are comfortable with it, it doesn’t mean that girls the age as the OP’s son will be. Even if they don’t need privacy at the basins at that time, or are in full cubicles that are completely private some will be discombobulated by seeing a pubertal male child their own age in a space they assumed was single sex.

Yes why is it a issue , your in a cubicle they are chaperone with a female so nothing to worry about

WhT do you mean by, “They are chaperone with a female?”

What do I mean a disabled male will only go to the ladies with a female carer / chaperone.

On balance if the choice is a teenage girl potentially feeling discombobulated or a disabled person shitting themselves, I'd generally go for the former.

I'm an absolute advocate for women's spaces,but in the scenario OP describes I believe she should be able to use whatever option is available to her to stop her DS soiling himself.

Honestly I'd not be bothered at all assuming we're talking UK public toilets. (In the US where there's a 1" either side of the doors I'm a bit more precious )

I'd maybe be taken aback at first seeing an older teen male in there. But as soon as it was apparent he was with you then I'd have no issue once I'd realised.

Anyone shouting at you (wtf) is the unreasonable one here.

They don't care about women in the OP's situation

It could also be claimed that the OP doesn’t care about the women and girls who desire a same sex toilet.

That isn’t true either.

I just don’t think all of the hand wavey, “It’s fine” responses are considering the minority of girls and women who whom it wouldn’t be fine, either for religious reasons, or trauma, or extreme shyness over bodily functions.

Most people don’t care about boys (and men, from the sound of things) with female carers in female toilets and some do but can appreciate that the OP is in a very difficult situation. However some will care a lot, and scolding them and referring to their objections as “moaning” isn’t fair either.

Something disturbs me about this thread.

It's hard to put my finger on it, but it's almost as if the disabled shouldn't exist and heaven forfend a teenage girl may have to come into contact with a disabled man.

OP doesn't want to use the ladies or mens. She has said she will always in preference use a disabled toilet if it exists . I understand that a very small minority of women are triggered by seeing men in women's spaces, but here I would have said that the disability transcends the gender and teaching everyone to have a bit of compassion for someone in a difficult situation is not a bad thing surely?

If the very worst thing that happens to a female is an obviously disabled male coming into the female toilets with a female chaperone, then that doesn't sound too dreadful. It's not Eddie Izzard arguing with teenagers about his divine right to use whatever toilets they want because they wear high heels.

I dont see the harm in a 12 yo using ladies with his mother present. Who on Earth would?

"When a grown man neads to use a toilet and bring in his help, he does it. Doesn't go into ladies because of that."

Professional carers should have training in how to deal with this including safety training in situations that put themselves at risk. Parent carers do not have this ( and are not usually allowed to have it).

@rookiemere

On balance if the choice is a teenage girl potentially feeling discombobulated or a disabled person shitting themselves, I'd generally go for the former.

I'm an absolute advocate for women's spaces,but in the scenario OP describes I believe she should be able to use whatever option is available to her to stop her DS soiling himself.

Could be a teenaged girl / woman with a disability who then has a meltdown because another mum has decided her adult son (Op’s situation could continue way past childhood in the absence of disabled loos) takes precedence in a woman’s space.

@rookiemere A teenage girl shouldn't come into contact with a disabled man in a female-only space.

In an ideal world, there would always be a single accessible toilet available for people with disabilities who need it, and their carers. I'm aware that we don't live in that world. Therefore, as has been said previously, the best thing is for the female carer to warn other occupants of the female facility that a male will be with her. That respects the need of the disabled man to use the toilet, and the need of vulnerable women not to be shocked by the presence of an unexpected male. Some disabilities are immediately visible, but not all are.

Female facilities aren't there as a shelter for vulnerable men or men who need compassion. They're for women. I can't imagine that women would object to a disabled man being present in the circumstances I outlined above, but just going in with no warning and then getting annoyed if a woman says something is very different.

"Anyone shouting at you (wtf) is the unreasonable one here."

Someone shouting probably doesn't like anyone with a learning disability near them. It's an excuse to have a go. Someone saying he shouldn't be in here is an opinion they are entitled to have but the shouting comes from something else.

We are not talking about a vulnerable man this is a disabled child .

@Ozanj what would you expect OP to do in this situation? Not use the only toilet available?

She hasn't decided her son takes precedence, she has used the only option available to her at the time.

Out of curiosity, if you did ask if anyone minds and someone said yes, they do mind, or wait until I am out of the toilet, what would you do?

And yes women should be able to expect females only in the female toilets. Many of my female relatives wear hijab, they should be able to adjust it at the mirrors without the worry that a man will come in.

Maybe if more female carers took their sons into the mens it might actually make the men and companies sit up and listen, because lets be honest, they dont listen to women who say they are uncomfortable

@KitBumbleB as many posters have mentioned it is much safer for a lone woman with her son to enter the women's toilets and not the men's.

What I would do in this situation is not go to places that don't have disabled facilities. The vast vast majority do. So if you can't visit the tiny museum visit another - it's not like there are not options. Most places have disabled toilets including pubs and restaurants. There are plenty to choose from. He is 12 at the moment but as others have said he will get older and a 20 year old man in female toilets is not OK

"What I would do in this situation is not go to places that don't have disabled facilities. The vast vast majority do."

I love the caring about equality in that statement.

How about if there aren't enough facilities we get rid of the female toilet and if females don't like it there are other places they can go.