Taking older son into the ladies?

[Chichimcgee]

He’s severely autistic, incontinent, anxious etc hes 12 but looks a lot older

There’s been two occasions where he’s gone into the men’s loos that ended up with me asking a random man to check they were empty and keep guard so I could sort my son out. We have a disability key and use that when we can but sometimes there’s not a disabled toilet.

I know he looks like teenager and it’s not nice for women using the loo and I do try to explain but there’s been a couple of toilet emergencies recently where I’ve been shouted at because he’s in the ladies with me. But I can’t go into the men’s?
WWYD?

I have to say I find these replies interesting, with the vast majority saying it’s fine to go in the ladies. Yet when someone posts about their 8 year old going swimming they’re told he must be in the men’s by himself
as pp has pointed out, this is a disabled child.
additionally, individual toilets are in cubicles - many swimming pool changing rooms are not, or even if changing cubicles, there's a communal shower area - so not really comparable.

People shouldn’t really be shouting if you (the mum) are with him. What’s he going to do with you there? I wouldn’t have a problem, people are horrible.

but I just doubt any women or girls would expect actual privacy in the open space of the toilets where everyone comes and goes

No, but their assumption would be that women and girls would come in, not pubertal boys.

As I have said, I don’t care, but I can’t tell the OP that’s it’s no big deal because I know my daughters, who are intensely private at the moment, would care.

It just feels like, once again, same sex spaces are being opened up to accommodate males and everyone is saying, “That’s fine, we understand and anyone who complains is ableist and horrible”.

And I do get it, and I would do the same, most likely, but it’s simplistic to think that girls, in particular, won’t care. And it’s minimising their intense desire for privacy around bodily functions to say, “No one needs privacy at the basin” when actually, even if just once in a lifetime, women and girls do.

& more and more places that I go have gender neutral toilets anyway

I honestly don't know why women moan about it, we're all in cubicles anyway it's not like anyone can see anything I couldn't care less if all toilets were shared as long as cubicles

or with the door jammed open due to a pram

4 babies, same pram this was ALWAYS me.

I actually had a number of very nice, often older women offer to keep an eye on babies while I went to the toilet in peace.

Take him in. If anyone says anything just say, ‘It’s an emergency’, and get on with it.

I fail to see how anyone could have a problem with this.

Katie Price used to hand out business cards that said something like, ‘I can see that you are interested. My son has xxxx. If you would like to find out more or donate then go to this website’.

Those who are uncomfortable with a male having a female chaperone in the ladies, what age does the male/boy have to be to make you feel uncomfortable?

@GreenWhiteViolet

I wouldn't have a problem with this if you went in first and let any women already in there know that you were bringing in your disabled son.

I was once in the female changing room at the gym when a woman and two teenage boys walked in there. It's possible that she was their mum and they had disabilities. I didn't stay long enough to find out - I had a panic response at the sight of unexpected males in a female space. Luckily I was dressed enough that I could immediately leave. If there was a good reason for them being there, then their mum/carer should have first made sure that the women in the room knew they'd be coming in and had time to cover up if needed. Yes, toilets have cubicles, but there might well be someone dealing with blood or fixing their hijab or something else they wouldn't want anyone male present for.

Agree with this

"I have to say I find these replies interesting, with the vast majority saying it’s fine to go in the ladies. Yet when someone posts about their 8 year old going swimming they’re told he must be in the men’s by himself"

Changing rooms are different. I don't know anyone with a severely disabled older male child who would think it is reasonable to take them into a female changing area.

I thought all public venues had a legal obligation to provide disabled facilities. Clearly, it's a disgrace if they're not.

In those circumstances I agree with @GreenWhiteViolet and would check in the women's toilets that anyone in there was OK with my disabled ds using them.

Those who are uncomfortable with a male having a female chaperone in the ladies, what age does the male/boy have to be to make you feel uncomfortable?

I don’t care at any age. My daughters became very private after puberty, so probably puberty and beyond?

It is very difficult, because obviously females are usually the main carers of their sons with disabilities.

"It just feels like, once again, same sex spaces are being opened up to accommodate males"

A female carer is being accommodated here.

To those who say OP should check if her disabled son is okay to be accompanied in the ladies toilets, what if he is desperate to use the toilet and if they say no, then what?

"It just feels like, once again, same sex spaces are being opened up to accommodate males"

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But the carer is female and would prefer not to enter a male toilet where they use urinals. The men in there could potentially be a risk to the female carer especially as she is in their territory.

The disabled CHILD isn't a risk to the females in their toilet and is being cared for and supervised.

It's all about the context of the situation. Life isn't always straightforward black and white, men and women, disabled toilet, sometimes people have to make choices that don't fit the ideals of everyone else.

The disabled CHILD isn't a risk to the females in their toilet and is being cared for and supervised

No, but a pubertal male will make some pubertal children his own age feel uncomfortable in their own spaces.

Will this continue when he’s 25? 50?

@Gizacluethen

How can there be no accessible toilet? I thought it was a legal requirement where there's toilets. If you have to take him into the women's then you have to accept women might not be happy about it.

Nope.

Businesses need to make, "reasonable adjustments" and there used to be a complete get out for any business with less than 20 employees.

Never notified this, but yes let's change this into a male bashing thread. When In fact the OP was talking about the unkindness of women.

It happens, a lot. And if you have to use the accessible toilet you have to get used to the stink of male shit.

Of course taking a male autistic child in the women's toilets is not the same as the OP going in the males with him. Women's toilets are all cubicles and men's have urinals.

Some people on here are dicks, I'm GC but this is where they lose me. Some people here are so extreme/obsessive with it that they seem not to be able to see anything beyond it. This is not eroding women's spaces it is giving a woman carer somewhere to take her autistic child. How can they not see that expecting you to go in the men's is making your life harder and taking away from you - a woman.

To me them saying that you're not welcome in the ladies toilets but at the same time saying they don't want gender neutral toilets that would allow you to help your autistic child is completely ableist. But I guess it's easy to be that self absorbed when you don't have a child with ASD.

@nolongersurprised

The disabled CHILD isn't a risk to the females in their toilet and is being cared for and supervised

No, but a pubertal male will make some pubertal children his own age feel uncomfortable in their own spaces.

Will this continue when he’s 25? 50?

Quite possibly , untill we have better disabled facilities.

I am still waiting for those who think it’s wrong or who post the “what happens when he is 20/30 etc” type posts to come up with an alternative for the OP and others when faced with this issue.

@sparepantsandtoothbrush

Does he have x-ray vision? I've never understood women getting all het up over this. They can't see you sitting on the toilet through the cubicle door!

Men expose themselves to use urinals and the OP going in to the men's isn't fair on either party

It's a really difficult situation.

But, given that some women obviously feel uncomfortable with a boy in the women's loos (as evidenced by the shouting), but if the only options are making men feel uncomfortable or making women feel unsafe, I think the former is the lesser of 2 evils.

I really do feel for you OP, it's a terrible situation to find yourself & your son in.

No, but a pubertal male will make some pubertal children his own age feel uncomfortable in their own spaces.

Will this continue when he’s 25? 50?

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If there isn't a disabled toilet, what would you do?

He will still be a vulnerable person needing care and supervision. He wouldn't be mooching around woman's toilets alone preying on anyone. I would pop my head in first and explain I'm a registered carer for an adult male and there isn't a disabled toilet for him to use so I will be walking him straight into a cubicle, and crack on. Wash hands, leave.

The problem lies with an establishment not providing adequate facilities for everyone. They are causing this. As far as I'm concerned if you've got to go, you've got to go, and as long as the situation is handled sensitively for all involved then there shouldn't be a problem, and it should be very rare, not the norm.

@GreenUp

It wouldn't bother me to see a mother accompanying her disabled son in the ladies. I'm sorry you've been shouted at and I'm sorry you've got so much on your plate. I hope things get easier for you.

I used to work with a grown man with incontinence and learning disabilities and when there wasn't a disabled toilet available I'd accompany him into the men's toilets. I operated from the position that it was my job to facilitate him to live the life he'd ordinarily live if he didn't have a disability so using the men's toilets seemed most appropriate from that perspective.

As long as you look away from the urinals and don't make eye contact, there should be no issue from the men. A majority of men don't want to start chatting in the toilet, they just get in and out so they pretend not to notice you.

This.

When a grown man neads to use a toilet and bring in his help, he does it. Doesn't go into ladies because of that.

(I know OP is mother of still-a-child, but this shift will need to happen at some moment)

[quote Honeysuckle45]@eejervis op has clearly stated that there aren't always disabled toilets available. If there are then this should obviously be the default option.

Your 10 year old dd may feel uncomfortable but what about the 12 year old disabled boys comfort and safety? Could you not reassure your dd and explain that he needs help? [/quote]
If the OP uses the men's does that not deal with that issue?

It's a horrible situation & there will always be someone who feels unsafe & uncomfortable.

@nolongersurprised

The disabled CHILD isn't a risk to the females in their toilet and is being cared for and supervised

No, but a pubertal male will make some pubertal children his own age feel uncomfortable in their own spaces.

Will this continue when he’s 25? 50?

Yes why is it a issue , your in a cubicle they are chaperone with a female so nothing to worry about .