Taking older son into the ladies?

[Chichimcgee]

He’s severely autistic, incontinent, anxious etc hes 12 but looks a lot older

There’s been two occasions where he’s gone into the men’s loos that ended up with me asking a random man to check they were empty and keep guard so I could sort my son out. We have a disability key and use that when we can but sometimes there’s not a disabled toilet.

I know he looks like teenager and it’s not nice for women using the loo and I do try to explain but there’s been a couple of toilet emergencies recently where I’ve been shouted at because he’s in the ladies with me. But I can’t go into the men’s?
WWYD?

I’m sorry you were harassed by women with a lack of understanding. Please don’t change your ways or risk an accident just because of some unfeeling people.

@strawberrrycheeesecake

Not sure what women are doing that needs privacy outside of the cubicles?

Washing blood off their clothes/hands? My teen DD helped her friend essentially strip down to underpants in the female toilets to clean off blood on the back of a school skirt. There aren’t basins in the cubicles

---

While I appreciate this can and does happen to some women, in all my years I've never seen someone covered in menstrual blood in their underwear at the basin of a public toilet.

Neither have I. Presumably the DDs friend could've waited unclothed in the cubicle.

While I appreciate this can and does happen to some women, in all my years I've never seen someone covered in menstrual blood in their underwear at the basin of a public toilet

Well, obviously it was not common, or DD wouldn’t have mentioned it. But menstrual issues, especially at the extremes of periods (girls with irregular, unpredictable ones, and perimenopausal women) do happen and in those circumstances, yes, some females need privacy at the basins.

I absolutely feel for the OP, and wouldn’t have shouted at her and I wouldn’t have cared at all. But - my teen daughters would have.

I would do exactly the same as you OP. My son is similar but only 6, I dread all this when he gets older. We always use a disabled loo if available but you often get just as many funny looks and people telling you off for using them.

And given that the OP’s sons needs will likely remain the same - will he be accessing the woman’s toilets at 15, 18, 25?

I think of it in terms of risk first. I think a female carer who is in reality on her own in the male toilet is more at risk than the other women are in the female toilet with a severely disabled male who is being chaperoned.

Well, obviously it was not common, or DD wouldn’t have mentioned it. But menstrual issues, especially at the extremes of periods (girls with irregular, unpredictable ones, and perimenopausal women) do happen and in those circumstances, yes, some females need privacy at the basins.

I absolutely feel for the OP, and wouldn’t have shouted at her and I wouldn’t have cared at all. But - my teen daughters would have.

---

Nobody will get any privacy at the basin of a public toilet though. I doubt many girls or women would be open to stripping off and cleaning blood soaked clothes in front of anybody.

@CentrifugalBumblePuppy

Someone upstream made a comment about “perfectly able bodied men strolling out of the disabled toilet” or some such.

Not all of us with disabilities look disabled. My crutches are a big old indicator of being on the wonky side of a nature, but you can have disabilities that require access to a disabled toilet (incontinence issues, colostomy bags, a plethora of other accessibility requirements), so don’t think a healthy looking dude (or lady) who is strolling of the disabled toilet couldn’t possibly have a valid reason for using it.

I have a friend with a colostomy bag and another with severe Chrons disease. Both need to use an accessible toilet at times. Neither ‘look’ disabled.

YANBU - he needs help, you need to help him, therefore you need to take him into the Ladies if there is no disabled toilet available.

I took DS1, and then later DS2 into the ladies with me up until the age of 7, largely because when I let DS1 go into the mens for the first time on his own, he came out crying because some utter arsehole kids wouldn't let him out of the cubicle until he started crying, poor kid. :(

I doubt many girls or women would be open to stripping off and cleaning blood soaked clothes in front of anybody

If you have a blood stain on the back of your skirt, and are still bleeding as you weren’t expecting your period, where do you go? My first instinct is the ladies’ toilets.

I probably wouldn’t have taken the skirt off myself, but my DD’s friend didn’t want to go home, was buffered by having my D D there and had to clean up somewhere.

I’m sure if middle-aged female posters like me came across a 15 year old girl scrubbing off a skirt in the basins, we would a) understand, b) not think “OMG, how inappropriate”

It’s disgraceful when there is a lack of accessible toilet. Sometimes there is one and it’s locked or out of order, I’ve come across this a fair bit.

My personally dislike having older males in the women’s toilet, but under these circumstances it wouldn’t bother me. I’m sure you would be responsible in supervising him. I also think he should be able to wash his hands as well.

Sadly this is what happens when men start overstepping the line and deciding they should enter women’s spaces without our consent. It’s not your son’s fault this is happened but sadly now you’ll both feel the backlash because of it. It’s just another way that entitled men have fucked things up.

Just use the ladies if no disabled toilet available op. Honestly ignore anyone who says differently he needs the loo simple as that and you need to take him , not the mens.

So, yes, sometimes women and girls do need privacy at the basin. It may only be once in their lives, but it does happen.

Someone needing privacy will have to contend with male cleaners walking in at any point.

I think it's usually quite obvious if someone has a severe learning disability or condition. I wouldn't mind him coming to the ladies at all. Life's hard enough for you anyway, you shouldn't have to worry about using any toilet if an accessible one isn't available

It wouldn't bother me. I don't get all the pearl clutching around whos coming into the ladies toilets

@Spikeyball

Someone needing privacy will have to contend with male cleaners walking in at any point.

Male cleaners tend to shout “CLEANERS! Anyone in there?” before walking in. Never known a cleaner just to stroll in without checking first.

@nolongersurprised

I doubt many girls or women would be open to stripping off and cleaning blood soaked clothes in front of anybody

If you have a blood stain on the back of your skirt, and are still bleeding as you weren’t expecting your period, where do you go? My first instinct is the ladies’ toilets.

I probably wouldn’t have taken the skirt off myself, but my DD’s friend didn’t want to go home, was buffered by having my D D there and had to clean up somewhere.

I’m sure if middle-aged female posters like me came across a 15 year old girl scrubbing off a skirt in the basins, we would a) understand, b) not think “OMG, how inappropriate”

I wouldn't think it was inappropriate at all, but I just doubt any women or girls would expect actual privacy in the open space of the toilets where everyone comes and goes. So it isn't a reason to discourage a carer from using the facilities when desperately needed. It isn't the norm to walk into a public toilet and see someone in a state of undress at the basin. It's not a private area like the cubicles are.

I wouldn't have a problem with this if you went in first and let any women already in there know that you were bringing in your disabled son.

I was once in the female changing room at the gym when a woman and two teenage boys walked in there. It's possible that she was their mum and they had disabilities. I didn't stay long enough to find out - I had a panic response at the sight of unexpected males in a female space. Luckily I was dressed enough that I could immediately leave. If there was a good reason for them being there, then their mum/carer should have first made sure that the women in the room knew they'd be coming in and had time to cover up if needed. Yes, toilets have cubicles, but there might well be someone dealing with blood or fixing their hijab or something else they wouldn't want anyone male present for.

Your son needs your help because he has a disability and in the even lot of no disabled toilets I see no issue with taking him to the ladies.

For those on here suggesting you go into the mens, would you suggest a Dad take their daughter into the ladies if roles were reversed?

It's clear that the OP is only using the Ladies toilets if there are no disabled toilets. I agree it may be upsetting for those who have suffered trauma and if there are menstrual blood related incidents. But I've been going to toilets for the whole of my 51 years and have never come across someone trying to clear up period blood, or with the door jammed open due to a pram.

It has been suggested that announcing that she will be bringing in her DS would alleviate the situation for anyone with trauma, and OP has taken this on board.

Personally I think the female toilets are more appropriate because they are cubicles so apart from the highly unusual circumstances outlined chances of seeing anything untoward is extremely low. Whereas in the mens toilets OP will see men using the urinals as that's how it's set up.

And again changing rooms are very different from toilets. I too do not like it at all if there is a boy old enough to stare at my body.

@sparepantsandtoothbrush

Does he have x-ray vision? I've never understood women getting all het up over this. They can't see you sitting on the toilet through the cubicle door!

Men expose themselves to use urinals and the OP going in to the men's isn't fair on either party

Agree

"Male cleaners tend to shout “CLEANERS! Anyone in there?” before walking in. Never known a cleaner just to stroll in without checking first."

In my experience there are ' male operative may be at work in this area' notices permanently on the wall they just come in and out. I have come out of a cubicle to find a male cleaner present plenty of times.

If there is no disabled toilet available then you have every right to take your son into the female toilets.

I find it so sad that you are have people giving you grief for this or suggesting you go into the men's toilets, continue being the great mum that you are and ignore those eye rolls, stares or comments, unless they have been in your shoes, they have no idea how hard it is.