AIBU to ask if you sleep trained your baby

[babyjellyfish]

What approach did you take, how old was your baby and how successful was it?

Looking for a range of views and experiences.

Thank you.

Absolutely no. Cruel and damaging.

I'm a Student SW (but worked in the team for many yrs) and the amount of evidence on the damage it does to the brain to not have a child's basic needs met is heartbreaking. I could never do that to my child, or any child. A child crying needs their parent.
I have 2 children, both coslept, oldest was a dream sleeper but the little one is dreadful. I often go to work on a couple of hrs sleep but even in my most desperate times couldn't do that to her.

To clarify, I'm talking about cry it out or anything that advocates leaving a baby to cry.
Not things like gradual retreat etc

No, just never felt right to me and I know I couldn't do it.

Not judging anyone else's approach.

DD has spells of sleeping well and spells of it being more difficult. Getting her down is particularly tricky at the moment.

I know being 'consistent' is seen as the holy grail of parenting but I've honestly found it far easier to take it as it comes with DD - we have a bedtime routine that we aim for but if it's not working for whatever reason I'll be flexible, go back to cosleeping for a bit if needed eg if she's unwell or teething. When she sleeps really well never seems to correspond to anything in particular I've done so for us I just think it's developmental (apart from lots of fresh air and leaving a long enough wake window after last nap which genuinely do seem to help).

I don't understand the 'oh you'd rather complain about lack of sleep rather than do anything about it' sneering either. Well no, I'd RATHER get a decent night's sleep every night but it doesn't always happen. I still don't think sleep training is right for me or my baby and I don't actually think it works half as well as its advocates on these threads always claim anyway - if that means you've 'no sympathy' for me well okay, it's not going to affect my view of how I want to parent.

In my opinion, there is a correlation between PND and some of those who have not sleep trained their baby.

@MaryShelley1818

Absolutely no. Cruel and damaging.

I'm a Student SW (but worked in the team for many yrs) and the amount of evidence on the damage it does to the brain to not have a child's basic needs met is heartbreaking. I could never do that to my child, or any child. A child crying needs their parent.
I have 2 children, both coslept, oldest was a dream sleeper but the little one is dreadful. I often go to work on a couple of hrs sleep but even in my most desperate times couldn't do that to her.

Sorry SW for who - because that is total rubbish. L. Ron Hubbard?

I did with my first 3 , my 4th was sent to punish me for being smug about having 3 who were all good sleepers. Youngest is only now in a routine due to starting school and being exhausted. Nothing worked and it nearly broke me.

@Alias your post is dripping judgement. And it's weird that you feel the need to justify your stance, esp by saying everyone who chooses the alternative is lying.

In my head, "sleep training" means gradually retreating rather than just leaving them to scream. That's not "training", it's just negligence.
However, I think I've only once seen someone on MN say they just left their baby to cry for hours. The rest of the time, people advocating sleep training are referring (and often explicitly stating so) to a gentle method of gradual retreat. This is then ignored by a large number of people decrying it as cruel and unusual because they've somehow associated the term only with leaving distressed babies to cry for hours, despite numerous posts indicating something very different.

@OfstedOffred

3 minutes not 3 months of wailing

I would always suggest a very gentle and gradual retreat with lots of reassurance.

Times have changed though. In the 50s and 60s my siblings and I were tucked up in our Silver Cross pram and parked in the garage for naps so our mother could get on with the housework. Shocking nowadays but I have never noticed any ill effects. I guess we weren't the only ones either.

Wonder how many of the 'no way' have good sleepers and feel well rested themselves 😄
We did the leave her for a few mins then come back, maybe pick him up if he needed it, maybe not. But sometimes me being there really really didn't help. He was tired, needed to go to sleep and just has to crack on. 99% of the time now he's straight to sleep all night on his own, we've had one wake up in the night since about week 10 when he was teething/ill. I can tell from his cries if there's something wrong or if it's just for attention.
Only took a couple of nights to work and then every night is really simple for us, he's happy falling asleep on his own, we're happy because we gets to spend the evening together

@3xmonsters

Yes. Done gently. I believe I teach my children lots of skills and going to sleep is once of them.

Ditto yes. Teaching a child to sleep does not have to be painful, as long as you're absolutely sure that you have ruled out everything except for a sleep association that you need to break, but get the daytime sleeping right and I firmly believe you either won't have to, or won't have to do much "sleep training" at all. As long as its done correctly it doesn't take long and the benefits for all are immeasurable. The only controlled crying/pick up cuddle and put down methods i've used have been a handful of times and only after 6 months.

My first one slept a solid 12 hrs sleep from 12 weeks old. 2nd and 3rd ones 12 hrs sleep from 6 months. All homebirthed, breastfed and all other hippy shit the righteous mothers love, and 3 very happy, healthy children who still thrive on a good night's sleep.

@MaryShelley1818

Absolutely no. Cruel and damaging.

I'm a Student SW (but worked in the team for many yrs) and the amount of evidence on the damage it does to the brain to not have a child's basic needs met is heartbreaking. I could never do that to my child, or any child. A child crying needs their parent.
I have 2 children, both coslept, oldest was a dream sleeper but the little one is dreadful. I often go to work on a couple of hrs sleep but even in my most desperate times couldn't do that to her.

As a student social worker part of your role and responsibility is to put aside your own judgements, do your research and really listen to people.

Are you referring to neglect, rather than tried and tested methods and experiences?

@MarvEll at one point my child was waking every 45 minutes and I never once considered it, because I'm morally opposed to it. He's never been a good sleeper, but that doesn't move my moral compass.

@GiantHaystacks2021 it's really not rubbish at all.
Try working with children who've suffered trauma or neglect or do some research. Plenty of it out there. Leaving babies to cry - and I clarified that I'm talking about cry it out (not a bit of ssh pat, or gradual retreat) is damaging, cortisol floods their bodies leading to permanent flight, fight, freeze response. I'm currently studying a huge amount of research on Therapeutic Parenting and things like PACE, and how to help repair children who've suffered trauma (including causality).
You can disagree and have a different opinion but "total rubbish" is just a ridiculous response given the amount of theory and evidence based research supporting it.

@De88
I always listen and work with parents in a non judgemental way. I'm regularly observed by Practice Educators and other SWs, and also receive feedback from parents. In 20yrs I've had ONE negative feedback. I've absolutely no doubts in my professional abilities but thank you for your advice. It doesn't really matter what an Internet stranger thinks, the number of families I've helped and supported is what keeps me in the job.

I believe I teach my children lots of skills and going to sleep is once of them

Lots of shit - peddled for people to sleep books about sleep training. You don’t need to teach a child to sleep, they will sleep when they are developmentally ready. You can force them to by essentially ignoring them, but that’s obviously a pretty shit thing to do.

If you’re breastfeeding and your child is about 12-18m then I recommend the Jay Gordon night weaning method. Otherwise I think its just mentally accepting you won’t sleep well for a few years, going to bed earlier and napping when you can! Best of luck

[quote MaryShelley1818]@GiantHaystacks2021 it's really not rubbish at all.
Try working with children who've suffered trauma or neglect or do some research. Plenty of it out there. Leaving babies to cry - and I clarified that I'm talking about cry it out (not a bit of ssh pat, or gradual retreat) is damaging, cortisol floods their bodies leading to permanent flight, fight, freeze response. I'm currently studying a huge amount of research on Therapeutic Parenting and things like PACE, and how to help repair children who've suffered trauma (including causality).
You can disagree and have a different opinion but "total rubbish" is just a ridiculous response given the amount of theory and evidence based research supporting it.[/quote]
You need to hit the books a bit harder, I daresay.

Also I'm not going to argue with nuts - so crack on, I'll not be replying to your guff anymore.
Feel free to have the last word - you obviously need it.

@MarvEll

My children are both shockingly bad sleepers. Still doesn’t mean I would just leave them to cry themselves to sleep. They also cry if my husband tries to settle them so that’s not an option. Have just accepted it as I know from my eldest it does get better. 🤷🏻‍♀️

No, never even thought of it. His dad and I were quite happy having him downstairs with us, ready for bed in pyjamas, until he went to sleep and he was fully engaged/interested in whatever was going on from babyhood. When we took him up to bed, asleep, he slept very well and so did we. It was nice, I look back on those times with affection.

Every child is different.

Yes. It worked for me. I was struggling with my mental health due to sleep issues. She’s a fab sleeper now at 7.

[quote Porcupineintherough]@Alias your post is dripping judgement. And it's weird that you feel the need to justify your stance, esp by saying everyone who chooses the alternative is lying.[/quote]
Eh?

It’s not dripping in judgement at all and I haven’t claimed anyone is lying??

Reading it back I probably haven’t worded it well - I don’t think the people who say it worked for them are lying, I’m sure it did. But I don’t think it works as well for everyone and I don’t think it always ‘sticks’.

I was responding to the posts that said if you don’t want to sleep train you don’t deserve any sympathy if your child is a bad sleeper then you’re bringing it on yourself, or just doing it because it’s fashionable or modern or whatever. I think that’s bollocks and if any posts are dripping in judgement it’s then.

Yes. Did it with our second child at about 11 months old. First night stayed in the room. Every 10 minutes patted belly and shushed him. Next night, went into room every 10 minutes. Same technique. Slept through on night 3.

It was the best money we’ve ever spent. It saved my bond with my son, my physical health and my sanity. It stopped him being constantly overtired and enabled him to wake each morning properly rested. It also helped him take proper naps in the day, which he had never previously managed to do.

I cannot recommend it highly enough.

Yes. Did Gina Ford. I would make sure DS was tired and if he didn't go down then another 15 mins in the jumperoo. I'd always pick him up and give reassurance but then I'd put him down again. It started with a 20 min sleep and got longer. He now has an amazing routine and likes sleep so much that I can reason with him that he should have a lie down so he isn't tired for fun stuff later. It's life changing!

No. I went baby led and DD always sleeps through unless ill. Have left her crying for no more than 5min before when she has refused to sleep at the beginning of the night but haven't really had issue and not trained her. May revise strategy if I had a difficult sleeper. I never had strict timetables for anything though and was very baby guided.