AIBU to ask if you sleep trained your baby

[babyjellyfish]

What approach did you take, how old was your baby and how successful was it?

Looking for a range of views and experiences.

Thank you.

DD2 didn't need sleep training. If I'd had 2 like her then perhaps I'd have had different ideas too

I think this is key.

Problem is a baby cries when they need to communicate ANYTHING to you, so if they’re tired they’ll cry.. if you going in and fussing them is actually elongating the time it takes them to get to sleep then it’s not actually being kind to stay with them, regardless of how loving you’re being it’s not the kind thing to do.

Overall if your baby is actually one that needs to be alone to sleep but it’s had 4/5/6/9 months of being rocked shh’d and what ever because that’s what society tells you baby’s need to sleep then it’s not surprising that it may take a few days to undo.

Honesty if I tried rocking my second to sleep in my arms he’d never.. ever.. sleep.

Yes, at 6 months, and I 100% believe it was the right decision. DS1 was a terrible sleeper. We went through months of him screaming the house down for hours as my DH and I tried everything to get him to sleep. Rocking, bouncing, singing, feeding. We’d finally get him off and in his cot, tiptoe out of the room and 5 minutes later it would start again. Eventually the only thing that worked was me going up to bed with him at 7, feeding him to sleep and staying there all night. Even then, he’d wake several times overnight, sometimes hourly, and would need me to resettle him. Anyone who thinks this was a reasonable or sustainable way for any of us to live, including poor DS who was so exhausted and distressed through all of this, can do one.

We tried controlled crying on the advice of a friend. I kid you not, the first night he woke once and resettled before I could get to his room, and from the second night he slept through. He’s now two and apart from when poorly (when of course we went in and cuddled etc) he’s slept 12 hours a night ever since. He is a happy, healthy, well rested child with happy, healthy well rested parents. We will do the same with DS2.

I wouldn't say we sleep trained as such but we followed a programme that structured his whole day including meal times as well as bedtime routine.

It wasn't letting him cry himself to sleep at all.

He was about 9 months old and his sleep was becoming awful and with another LO on the way we needed to do something.

After 3 nights he was settling himself to sleep and sleeping through.

Honesty if I tried rocking my second to sleep in my arms he’d never.. ever.. sleep.

My daughter is a bit like that.

When she was a few weeks old she was sooooo restless. I was at my wits end, I’d done everything. Fed her, burped her changed her rocked her…

In desperation because my back was aching and I needed a wee, I popped her in her cot. She settled immediately, she just wanted put down!

[quote coraka]@Shitandhills I recommend the Emily Oster book as mentioned by PP. She quotes numerous studies suggesting that, as opposed to being harmful, cry it out and other sleep training methods actually beneficial for babies. Just one example:

"There are a number of good randomized trials that speak to this. One representative study from Sweden, published in 2004, took ninety-five families and randomized them into a sleep-training regime involving a form of “cry it out.”8 The authors focused on whether behavior during the day was impacted by the nighttime—basically, they asked whether the infants were less attached to their parents during the day as a result of being left to cry during the night. This particular study found that, in fact, infant security and attachment seemed to increase after the “cry it out” intervention. It also found improvements in daytime behavior and eating as reported by the babies’ parents. Note that this is the opposite of the concerns raised about “cry it out” methods.

Oster, Emily. Cribsheet (p. 178). Profile. Kindle Edition.

The data about attachment disorders comes from studies of children from Romanian orphanages, where children were seriously neglected, not from brief episodes of parents not responding in the context of a loving and nurturing relationship.

It's good news - sleep training does not harm babies! That must be good news to you, even if you have chosen not to do it! Of course we all make different choices and we just make the best decisions we can with the information we have at the time.[/quote]
I agree that the orphanages research is a poor example to generalise from, but it’s equally naive to think you can determine the long term psychological effects of sleep training from that random control trial. There are far too many variables at play to draw definitive conclusions. It’s very difficult to empirically validate the isolated impact of any single traumatic event in infancy in that sort of manner.

The problem with the studies that Emily Oster cites, is that parents were able to move from the sleep training group to the control group or leave the study at anytime in the experiments. This will be the case for all sleep training studies, ethically you can not force a parent to continue with sleep training if they feel it is not beneficial/harming their children. So yes sleep training is probably not harmful for a majority of babies but possibly it is for some but those parents were aware it was having a detrimental effect so removed them from the study. This is why I hate the cries of martyrdom for parents who aren’t comfortable sleep training, maybe they are just aware that it would be detrimental for their child. Also none of the studies looked past 6 years so we still dont know if there will be any differences in adulthood in the sleep trained vs not sleep trained long term.

I can't imagine leaving a baby or toddler alone in a room crying. And I say that as the mother of a child who slept terribly until they were two (and a baby who will only sleep in my arms ). They all learn to sleep through the night eventually, it's not a skill you can teach, it's developmental. All babies left to cry will go silent eventually, bevause evolution taught them that if no one comes to their rescue when crying, it's safer to shut down

No.

We did. She was about 8 months and we'd tried everything else. Every night up till then was just hours of sitting in her room and trying to soothe her, getting up in the middle of the night etc, having her in our bed. We were existing on about 3 hours sleep a night

So we decided to try it. Went in every 10 minutes, gently told her it was time for sleep, stroked her head and then let her cry again for another 10 minutes

1st night was horrendous. Me and my partner sat on the stairs beating ourselves up about what bad parents we were. Took about 4 hours for her to finally go to sleep. And then she woke up again at 2am and we did another 3 hours.

2nd night took about 2 hours, and we were just about to give up when she went to sleep. She woke up in the night but it only took about 20 minutes.

3rd night she was asleep within 15 minutes and it was job done.

It's not for everyone, but it worked for us when nothing else would. And she's now 14, and doesn't seem to have been psychologically scarred by it. I suppose we'll find out whether there's some deep seated resentment when she chooses our nursing home.

@Bizawit of course, but don't you think there could also be long-term harm from being chronically sleep deprived during infancy and childhood? With so many of these decisions there isn't a risk-free option, we just have to look at the evidence we have available and make the decision in the best interests of our child.

So many posts on here are nothing but hyperbole, truly unhelpful!

From Oster again: "I think it is fair to say that it would be good to have more data—it’s always good to have more data! And yes, it is possible that if we had more data, we would find some small negative effects. The studies we have are not perfect.

However, the idea that this uncertainty should lead us to avoid sleep training is flawed. Among other things, you could easily argue the opposite: maybe sleep training is very good for some kids—they really need the uninterrupted sleep—and there is a risk of damaging your child by not sleep training. There isn’t anything in the data that shows this, but there is similarly nothing to show that sleep training is bad.

You could also argue that the effects of maternal depression on children are long-lasting, and therefore this intervention may have beneficial long-term effects. This seems in many ways more plausible. You’ll have to make a choice about this without perfect data. (This is true of virtually all parenting choices. Blame the parenting researchers!) But it would be a mistake to say, for example, that not sleep training is the “safest option.”

Does all this mean you should definitely sleep train? Of course not—every family is different, and you may really not want to let your baby “cry it out.” You need to make your own choices, just as with everything else. But if you do want sleep train, you should not feel shame or discomfort about that decision. The data, imperfect as it is, is on your side."

Oster, Emily. Cribsheet (pp. 181-182). Profile. Kindle Edition.

@Samanabanana

I can't imagine leaving a baby or toddler alone in a room crying. And I say that as the mother of a child who slept terribly until they were two (and a baby who will only sleep in my arms ). They all learn to sleep through the night eventually, it's not a skill you can teach, it's developmental. All babies left to cry will go silent eventually, bevause evolution taught them that if no one comes to their rescue when crying, it's safer to shut down

@samambanana

What you're saying is, having spent years and years of sleep deprivation, you refuse to believe that there could have been an alternative. Because that would mean you'd gone through all that unnecessarily.

Yes, they learn to sleep eventually. Some mothers would lose their jobs, relationships and physical/mental health in the process.

Sleep training doesn't necessarily involve leaving a baby alone in a room. With many methods, you're there with them but not letting them fall asleep in your arms.

Babies don't 'go silent', they go to sleep. I know. I had babies who sleep trained and they were definitely asleep. Most of the time they were happy to go in their cot as they liked being there. Are you saying a baby that goes in the cot and is happy and gurgling and chatting to themselves is terribly distressed but putting on a show for its parents' benefit?

Honestly. Keep your sad faces, don't lecture people about something you haven't done and don't understand. This thing about evolution making them stay silent in terror - maybe they're upset the first night (and most sleep training methods mean a parent is nearby to provide reassurance). After a few nights, they just start to associate their cot with sleep. Up until then they associate milk/boobs/parents' arms with sleep. Sleep training teaches them different sleep cues. That's all it is. You're not leaving them alone in a cave with a sabre-toothed tiger, FFS.

How have so many people managed to completely ignore the fact that sleep training a baby rarely means just leaving them alone to cry? As has been stated over and over and over again.

If people want to post sad face emojis and "Oh, I could never..." then it surely isn't hard to find a thread about something more dire than slowly retreating from a baby who's safe, fed and warm in their own home.

Yes, gently. By gently I mean always keeping the light off when they woke up at night. Lots of shush/pat and not to much engagement or eye contact but cuddles if they were needed.
The baby was sleeping from 7-7 with an 11pm dream feed from 2 months.
By 6 months it was 7-7.
We have never looked back.
The term "bad sleeper" is incredibly misleading. There's no such thing as a bad sleeper but definitely such a thing as a bad habit. Such as feeding to sleep for example. Babies should learn to self settle.
If you're happy to have years of broken sleep, then by all means feed to sleep, lie beside them until they fall asleep etc.
But I value sleep and trained my baby accordingly.

Yes, my DC were all sleep trained at 6 months. They are all happy, healthy adults now and have not been damaged by being taught to sleep in their own beds!

The term "bad sleeper" is incredibly misleading. There's no such thing as a bad sleeper but definitely such a thing as a bad habit

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

@coraka

I know what it’s like to be severely sleep deprived? I was hallucinating when I left hospital after a traumatic crash c section and haemorrhage and week on the ward with 1 hour sleep or less a night. Breastfeeding so still no chance to catch up once home, a baby with tongue tie and severe colic who constantly cried and never had these long naps in the day that everyone told me about. I obviously developed PND and on top PTSD . My baby didn’t sleep in stretches for months, I was a mess and felt suicidal, all I wanted was to sleep properly but guess what …I didn’t leave my baby to scream for 50 bloody minutes. I will say it’s cruel because it is , I hope no one else looking for tips on here copies you. CIO is horrendous. Gentle sleep training should be the only thing people try.

You can't really trust the research quoted by Emily Oster as far as I can tell. She mainly seems to reference that support her idea that sleep training isn't damaging, yet she acknowledges that there isn't enough research to prove it either way, which is contradictory... so research doesn't show that it isn't damaging. It's easy to find "research" that backs up what you want to believe, but the source, sample sizes, and amount of trials conducted are very important in deeming whether it's worthwhile.

Also, let's not worry people that feeding their baby to sleep will cause that baby not to sleep. 🤦‍♀️ I see enough mums in support groups feeling extremely upset because they've been led to believe that feeding to sleep is what has caused their baby to wake numerous times, and HCPs and peer supporters having to reassure them it's not the case and that they've done nothing wrong.

*seems to reference studies that...

I did controlled crying with my 10mo who was waking up regularly (and was grumpy , just wanted to go back to sleep but couldn't, everything we did seemed to annoy her). I was also pregnant and very ill / shattered and had to go back to work. Controlled crying for 2 nights (NOT cry it out). Slept through on 3rd night.

[quote Xds1453]@coraka

I know what it’s like to be severely sleep deprived? I was hallucinating when I left hospital after a traumatic crash c section and haemorrhage and week on the ward with 1 hour sleep or less a night. Breastfeeding so still no chance to catch up once home, a baby with tongue tie and severe colic who constantly cried and never had these long naps in the day that everyone told me about. I obviously developed PND and on top PTSD . My baby didn’t sleep in stretches for months, I was a mess and felt suicidal, all I wanted was to sleep properly but guess what …I didn’t leave my baby to scream for 50 bloody minutes. I will say it’s cruel because it is , I hope no one else looking for tips on here copies you. CIO is horrendous. Gentle sleep training should be the only thing people try.[/quote]
Uh @xds1453 I'm sorry you had such a hard time. However I don't think anyone advocates sleep training for very tiny babies, most guides seem to start at six months.

The point about Emily Oster is that she looks at the research available and assesses it's quality as well as what it's actually saying. She doesn't cherry pick to suit what she thinks.

I did. Whether DS napped or not he was put down for some quiet time, and eventually I did that in the evening too. He learned to self soothe and drift into sleep. I used to hear him in there babbling until he fell asleep. He does the same now but with books.

@5keletor

You can't really trust the research quoted by Emily Oster as far as I can tell. She mainly seems to reference that support her idea that sleep training isn't damaging, yet she acknowledges that there isn't enough research to prove it either way, which is contradictory... so research doesn't show that it isn't damaging. It's easy to find "research" that backs up what you want to believe, but the source, sample sizes, and amount of trials conducted are very important in deeming whether it's worthwhile.

Also, let's not worry people that feeding their baby to sleep will cause that baby not to sleep. 🤦‍♀️ I see enough mums in support groups feeling extremely upset because they've been led to believe that feeding to sleep is what has caused their baby to wake numerous times, and HCPs and peer supporters having to reassure them it's not the case and that they've done nothing wrong.

Oster is an economist whose entire career involves analysing statistics. She looks at all the available studies on different topics and assesses the strengths and weaknesses of each. She points out when there is missing or contradictory data and seeks to explain her reasoning for a general audience. Of course you can still look at the same evidence and draw a different conclusion about which risk you’re willing to take, but I don’t see why you’d think that there’s any reason to doubt her methods. Unless you were very committed to a particular view already and not willing to consider the evidence.

I think there are many misconceptions about sleep training and many different methods!

We did sleep training with DS, he woke every 40 mins, I wasn't safe to function let alone get behind the wheel of a car!
We followed the Lucy Wolfe method of stay and comfort and it worked for us. We still refer back to the book when we get a bit of regression but most nights sleeps through from 7ish til 7am at 3 years old.
I didn't follow the suggested feeding plan and still gave a night feed til he was 1 year but he dropped that himself.

I did receive judgement for it but tbh it was done partly for my health and I became a far better mother for not surviving on 10 mins of broken sleep every hour!
Do what's best for you and your family!