To be so annoyed by the term birth givers

[UniverseSeekerUK]

Having seen that some NHS trusts have decided to use the term Birth Giver it has really annoyed me. It feels as though while they are trying to be inclusive, they are slowly ridding women of everything that is unique to them. Periods, breastfeeding, giving birth are now being generalized and it almost feels as though being a woman won't even be a recognized thing anymore.

Is there no way we can achieve inclusivity without reminding ourselves that women are the sex that do all of these things?

AIBU to be so annoyed by the term birth givers?

Agree @UniverseSeekerUKand YANBU.

Why do the rights of the non-binary/transgender community trump MY rights as a woman?

Why are womens rights and wishes routinely and constantly trampled on?! Fucked off with it all tbh.

I also had an EMCS. I struggled with feelings of failure afterwards and personally, I don’t describe myself as having given birth. But thank goodness for modern medicine! Without it, DD and I probably would have died.

I also had IVF, so I didn’t even conceive DD naturally. But I went through a lot to conceive her. I’ll never forget finding out I was pregnant. The dark pink control line appeared instantly and the test window was empty. As I waited three minutes for a second pink line to appear, I honestly thought I was going through the motions. I was so shocked when a second, pale pink line appeared. It was the best surprise of my life!

I wish every parent, trans or cis, the same moment. There’s nothing like it!

Dehumanising women to support a small number of people who have sadly been taught to believe that their body defines their identity is a sorry reflection on society.

"All this frothing"

Ffs.

Do you not understand that if women includes biological men who imagine they feel like they are women then we cannot organise as a political class against abuse and misogyny? We cannot defend women who are the most vulnerable and we cannot protect girls from any predatory man who wants access to them?
How fucking stupid do you have to be.
I'm starting to lose patience with people who wilfully now down to this dogma now.

@Nellle

Literally never seen the phrase "birth-giver" or "chest-feeder" being used IRL and can't care about it until I do.

Plenty of people say these words are being used to erase "woman", but I'm yet to see it.

Open your eyes then.

@Cattenberg

I also had an EMCS. I struggled with feelings of failure afterwards and personally, I don’t describe myself as having given birth. But thank goodness for modern medicine! Without it, DD and I probably would have died.

I also had IVF, so I didn’t even conceive DD naturally. But I went through a lot to conceive her. I’ll never forget finding out I was pregnant. The dark pink control line appeared instantly and the test window was empty. As I waited three minutes for a second pink line to appear, I honestly thought I was going through the motions. I was so shocked when a second, pale pink line appeared. It was the best surprise of my life!

I wish every parent, trans or cis, the same moment. There’s nothing like it!

Most parents are neither trans nor cis and I wish them well too.

@WandaWomblesaurus73

"All this frothing"

Ffs.

Do you not understand that if women includes biological men who imagine they feel like they are women then we cannot organise as a political class against abuse and misogyny? We cannot defend women who are the most vulnerable and we cannot protect girls from any predatory man who wants access to them?
How fucking stupid do you have to be.
I'm starting to lose patience with people who wilfully now down to this dogma now.

People who use insulting terms like frothing are not stupid. They know what they're doing when they try and silence women. Misogyny is evil but not necessarily stupid. The thing is - they don't want women to be defended.

It matters to me. It matters to my women friends. It's crucial we don't lose our accurate, biologically correct, unambiguous language.

@Furbulousnous

‘ there’s no need to change the terminology even for transmen.’

If a midwife or HCP is assisting a transman with feeding their newborn then it should be up to the parent involved how they’d like to be referred to, terminology used shouldn’t it?

It's really not that simple. Midwives get very little time with each woman and baby. To expect them to memorise idiosyncratic tears for biological functions in order not to cause offence by referencing that biology is not realistic.

@HelloFrostyMorning

Agree *@UniverseSeekerUKand* YANBU.

Why do the rights of the non-binary/transgender community trump MY rights as a woman?

Why are womens rights and wishes routinely and constantly trampled on?! Fucked off with it all tbh.

It's amazing how many Transwomen on their YouTube channels refer to themselves as "Mother" such as the delightful "Hannah" who waits in the childrens game Roblox to parent young children into the church of the gender people. It's so kind and stunning and brave and not at all a safeguarding nightmare.

Also Jeffrey Marsh, trans influencer calls themselves "Internet Mom"

So which is it? Men are allowed to use the word mother for themselves but women aren't? Get in the fucking sea.

www.theguardian.com/games/2021/apr/24/in-the-game-i-knew-myself-as-hannah-the-trans-gamers-finding-freedom-on-roblox

@HelloFrostyMorning I wasn't telling you to get in the sea just then btw 😂

Tired and grumpy 😠 and sick of this bullshit now. A couple of DD's classmates have been squealing about getting a breastbinder - it's insanity.

@Viviennemary

Does it really matter. All this frothing. Who cares.

Yes. It really fucking matters.

@Butteryflakycrust83

But.... We aren't ALL being called birthers are we? (Because that IS gross).

‘Birthers’ is an abomination of a word anyway.

I haven't rtft. However, for the people who say that this is something that doesn't happen in real life, Yes It Does.

I attended some private antenatal sessions in the summer of 2021 (Happy Parent Happy Baby, fwiw). It was on many levels a wonderful course. However in the beginning we were given a list of the sessions that we would be doing. It said something like in session 5 there would be a bit on 'mum health following birth'. It also said that in session 5 the group would be split so that mums would be in one group and birth partners in the second group. Fine.

Just before session 5 rolled around we were sent a reminder about the class. However, the reminder said that there would be a bit on 'self care following birth'. Okay. It then said that the class would be split between 'birth parents' in one group and birth partners in the other.

Furthermore, in the session about hypnobirthing the literature again referred to 'birth parents'.

So yes, antenatal classes are now removing the words 'mum' and 'mother' from their literature.

I was furious in my feedback form.

Fortunately the women actually leading the class still managed to use the word 'mother'. Also, session 2 included a talk by a women's physiotherapist. Not sure how they planned to rename that description. (The removal of the word 'mum' clearly happened somewhere between sessions 2 and 5).

So no, this is not the Daily Mail whipping up a storm in a teacup. This is happening to the English language.

If you still don't believe me, watch the Stella Creasy podcast on the Covid vaccine where she talks to four experts about the impact of the vaccine if you're pregnant or trying to conceive. Dr Victoria Male refers to 'pregnant people' instead of 'pregnant women' Every. Single.Time.

Also - ask the men in your life if, in their heart of hearts they truly believe that someone who has gone through pregnancy and childbirth is a man or 'non-binary'.

I sincerely doubt it.

It then said that the class would be split between 'birth parents' in one group and birth partners in the other

Agh it's early. I meant the literature referred to 'birthing parents' and 'birthing partners' not 'birth parents' and 'birth partners'.

I gave birth a few months ago: in my trust all the literature talked and social media talkes about pregnant people and birthing parent. The term women is only used IRL.

@Cattenberg

I also had an EMCS. I struggled with feelings of failure afterwards and personally, I don’t describe myself as having given birth. But thank goodness for modern medicine! Without it, DD and I probably would have died.

I also had IVF, so I didn’t even conceive DD naturally. But I went through a lot to conceive her. I’ll never forget finding out I was pregnant. The dark pink control line appeared instantly and the test window was empty. As I waited three minutes for a second pink line to appear, I honestly thought I was going through the motions. I was so shocked when a second, pale pink line appeared. It was the best surprise of my life!

I wish every parent, trans or cis, the same moment. There’s nothing like it!

Not sure in aibu but definitely in fwr, cis is not allowed. It doesn't describe me anyway and I would rather it was never used again. Here or anywhere.

@Cattenberg

I also had an EMCS. I struggled with feelings of failure afterwards and personally, I don’t describe myself as having given birth. But thank goodness for modern medicine! Without it, DD and I probably would have died.

I also had IVF, so I didn’t even conceive DD naturally. But I went through a lot to conceive her. I’ll never forget finding out I was pregnant. The dark pink control line appeared instantly and the test window was empty. As I waited three minutes for a second pink line to appear, I honestly thought I was going through the motions. I was so shocked when a second, pale pink line appeared. It was the best surprise of my life!

I wish every parent, trans or cis, the same moment. There’s nothing like it!

I had an EMCS too and I also feel like I didn't actually give birth to my son; my male obstetrician did. I'm pretty much over it now but in the early weeks I felt very bad about it, especially since I couldn't stay pregnant without medical assistance, couldn't give birth without medical assistance, and was then put under pressure to formula feed because my baby was very small and had lost too much weight. It made me feel like a failure as a woman.

PS - I echo others' comments about not dividing everybody into trans and cis. I don't want to be defined according to a set of beliefs I don't share. To me cis means having a gender identity which "matches" your biological sex. I don't believe I have a gender identity, and what's more, I rarely come across anyone who isn't trans or non binary who believes they have one. Most people just have a (male or female) body and a personality. The reason all these horrible euphemisms for female people are being used is because of a small minority who believe that the word woman means something other than female person. I reject that idea and I reject all their terminology, including cis.

The reason all these horrible euphemisms for female people are being used is because of a small minority who believe that the word woman means something other than female person.

Exactly.

It's unbelievably sexist.

And terms like 'birth giver', 'menstruator' etc. are degrading terms.

Nobody would refer to their infant daughter as a "future menstruator' - that would be ghastly. But that's what this sort of language will turn into, eventually. That's why the people who 'can't get worked up' about this sort of thing need to start paying attention.

In addition, the word 'cis' is made up nonsense that women are being told they must refer to themselves.

No.

I don't see it the other way round, testicular cancer ads proudly refer to men, not spunk-givers, prostate checks are exclusively for men, not be-penised-persons.

Why is it so important that transwomen are recognised via female language adjustments while male language is left alone?

Right now I think I'd settle for the "genetically maternal parent" over birth giver 🤣

Why is it so important that transwomen are recognised via female language adjustments while male language is left alone?

LoL. We all know why, don't we. Because men's feelings are more important than reality, let alone more important than those of women.

Thinking about it, we had 'pregnant person' used in a first aid course at work. I was too to say anything but fortunately I have an arse-kicking ex-army colleague who promptly asked a question about 'pregnant mothers'.

We had a data form at work recently and I crossed out 'gender' and wrote 'sex'. I'm so done with this shit.

I think it's very offensive and women are once again being erased by men. I don't know any woman who actively wishes to be called this.