To be so annoyed by the term birth givers

[UniverseSeekerUK]

Having seen that some NHS trusts have decided to use the term Birth Giver it has really annoyed me. It feels as though while they are trying to be inclusive, they are slowly ridding women of everything that is unique to them. Periods, breastfeeding, giving birth are now being generalized and it almost feels as though being a woman won't even be a recognized thing anymore.

Is there no way we can achieve inclusivity without reminding ourselves that women are the sex that do all of these things?

AIBU to be so annoyed by the term birth givers?

@LimpLettice

There is motive behind this language and anyone who tries to suggest women are 'frothing' by protesting is being disingenuous at the least. It isn't about the women refusing to be called mother, it's about the men who can never be and so want to utterly divorce women from it. Also handily manages to dehumanise us neatly, making surrogacy a much less vile sounding idea - babies aren't removed from their mother, but from their 'birth giver'. 🤮

Posters all over my local pharmacy about 'breast and chest feeding families' without one single mention of either 'mother' or 'woman'. I can tell you now, in my 8 years of breastfeeding, not once has it been a 3am family fucking pursuit, and I don't appreciate being wiped out of the equation to please anyone.

The word ‘breast’ is a sex-neutral term which refers to the mammary glands of males and females and referring to ‘chests’ rather than ‘breasts’ is medically inaccurate. The ‘chest’ in medical terminology refers to the ribcage and everything within it and does not include mammary tissue (97). Chest pain may signify a serious heart or lung condition, whereas breast pain may signify a breast condition such as mastitis.

Desexed language can make it unclear who is being referred to. Does ‘breastfeeding people’ mean mothers, infants or both? Are ‘postnatal people’ those who have just given birth or those who are providing postnatal care? Using the phrase ‘breastfeeding parents’ rather than ‘breastfeeding mothers’ or ‘women,’ both suggests the partner is participating in the act of breastfeeding and makes invisible the sex of the person breastfeeding the child. In this way, desexed language obscures the practical and power imbalances in relationships, decision making, and economics that breastfeeding mothers may face because they are female (98-102).

But.... We aren't ALL being called birthers are we? (Because that IS gross).

What really gets my goat is that the NHS does not appear to do the same for men's health. Don't think I have ever seen men referred to as "prostate havers" in the cancer literature.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

There should'nt even be any bloody debate.

ONLY women give birth. Almost all will want to be called mum or mother.

Why do we need to pander to the demands of the minuscule number of females who want to use their female body to get pregnant whilst claiming to not be women?

It isn't 'inclusive' to dehumanise the majority because a few females are seemingly triggered by words, but not their biology? How convenient to pick and choose.

Men don't get pregnant or give birth. We don't need to pretend otherwise.

This says all I would want to add.

@Viviennemary

Does it really matter. All this frothing. Who cares.

Women do

@Viviennemary

Does it really matter. All this frothing. Who cares.

I do. Deeply. I genuinely cannot believe how few women fully appreciate how detrimental longterm the complete eradication of women is going to be. This especially when our rights were so hard fought but seem to be able to be obliterated in a fortnight. This train crash needs to stop.

I hate this with a passion. "Birth giver" is such a nasty term. If I didn't love my mum or was LC I might refer to her as "birth giver" as it's so degrading.

(Love you, Mum!)

Viviennemary
Does it really matter. All this frothing. Who cares.
If it doesn't matter it can be fucking well left as it was.

//// this with bloody bells on

A small group of people who have chosen to exclude themselves from the word "woman" because they believe that it is a gender identity rather than simply a word that means female people now want those of us who believe it means female people to come up with new words for female people and use them do that they can be included.

Perfect summary, but to add it's also driven by male people who have decided they are not men, and don't like any public reference to "women" having a female body without a qualifier of their choice.

@Pedalpushers

I don't really understand why woman can't be used for the majority and birth giver for transmen who are pregnant and don't wish to be referred to as a woman. PP is right that not every woman who has a baby identifies as a birth giver, why can't everyone just have the words that they want if the world is supposed to be so inclusive to everyone's feelings?

They're adults. They know the reason we use 'woman'. They should have the emotional intelligence to ignore the word of it upsets them, or ask their specific HCP to call them however they prefer.

Them wanting to be called different is fine, but why scrap 'woman'? Ridiculous and I'm sure there's lots of trans people that don't appreciate the term either.

@Viviennemary

Does it really matter. All this frothing. Who cares.

I fucking care. I'm a woman, and would like to be addressed as such.

Birth giver seems so detached.

Perhaps it's part of the push to promote surrogacy?

Yes I thought that. It's a bit like the awful "gestational carrier".

@3peassuit

It’s a horrible expression. The word is mother.

Totally agree. But I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong and the term 'mother' is offensive and excluding some folk that identity as something other than femaleor human....😒

I've never heard anyone use it; but organizations use odd bureaucratic terms. I would have assumed it to be a way of distinguishing biological from adoptive/ foster/ stepmothers, rather than about gender; but .. it's an extremely silly term, but I can't get worked up about it. (Now imagining Neil Reid singing 'Birth giver sweet birth giver of mine!' - no, I don't think it's going to catch on.)

@ClariceQuiff

Is this not for clarity where the couple are same sex, i.e. both women? They might both be 'mother' to the child but only one of them will give birth.

They can both be "mothers". All mothers are female.

The sectIons about the effect of “inclusive language” on medical research are jaw-dropping IMO. I can’t believe this is happening. Here’s one example:

Replacing a word with another of different meaning as if they are synonyms makes communications inaccurate or confusing. For example, in a growing number of papers, the severity of COVID-19 disease in pregnant women is being misrepresented by comparing ‘pregnant people’ to ‘non-pregnant people’ (40, 85-92) when the comparator in the research in question is ‘non-pregnant females.’ Given the greater severity of COVID-19 disease in males (93), this misrepresentation means readers may under-estimate disease severity in pregnant women. Highly regarded organisations like the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (40) and the Australian Department of Health (85) have made this error, and research containing this error has been published in the eminent New England Journal of Medicine (86).

'Chest feeder' has also got to be the thickest term I have ever heard, and for a medical establishment to use it is nothing short of embarrassing.

Chests don't feed babies. Breasts do, and men have them too. When men get breast cancer, which they do, we still use the medically correct term.

It's the equivalent of mistaking a heart for an organ only a female has, getting antsy about 'inclusivity' and deciding you'll refer to a heart attack in neutral terms by calling it a ribcage arrest.

Totally moronic.

For those claiming that this kind of change of language isn't happening,

The Scottish Government, after lobbying from Stonewall, have removed the word mother from their maternity policy -

www-scotsman-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/scottish-governments-deletion-of-the-word-mother-from-maternity-leave-documents-after-advice-from-stonewall-is-lunacy-brian-wilson-3429706?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&amp&itm_source=parsely-api&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16437193507345&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scotsman.com%2Fnews%2Fopinion%2Fcolumnists%2Fscottish-governments-deletion-of-the-word-mother-from-maternity-leave-documents-after-advice-from-stonewall-is-lunacy-brian-wilson-3429706

NHS Scotland recently ran a national radio campaign to encourage uptake of the cervical screening programme. The word woman was not used once. The term 'those with a cervix' was the term used -

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19639181.snp-ministers-criticised-urging-anyone-cervix-get-smear-test/

And this isn't happening to language relating to men. Compare the NHS web pages for cervical cancer and prostate cancer. The word woman is only used in conjunction with other terms such as 'those with a cervix' or 'those who identify as...' . The word man appears with no such qualifier.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/cervical-cancer/

www.nhs.uk/conditions/prostate-cancer/

If its all about 'inclusion', why is it not happening across the board? Why is only women's language being changed?

I'm 39 weeks and under a trust that uses this language. All the posters/literature ive had or seen up in the hospital still refer to women, they just also reference 'birthing person' for those who don't identify as a women, and I must admit I struggle to get worked up by that as nobody is saying I'm not a woman as it's listed on the poster. Same as all literature says 'breast or chest feeding' (Although someone has gone round with a pen crossing our birthing person on the posters in the toilet in the assessment unit!) I've only once seen something that made reference to a birthing parent/non-birthing parent and I think that was more to be inclusive of same sex couples etc than trans necessarily as both could be 'mum'.

In all communication with me in person, or written, or conversations I've overheard when on wards etc have all referred to me as a lady, woman, mother etc and all conversations have been about breastfeeding, nobody has tried to tell me I'm going to 'chestfeed' but if including it in the poster makes a handful of people more comfortable I can't get worked up over it as it's made precisely 0 difference to my care or conversations compared to my last in a different trust that didn't use this terminology. I'd probably feel different if I was being called a birthing person/birth giver/chest feeder but I'm not 🤷

I read an article the other day about transgender men having periods. Glad it's not just me that gets annoyed.

@Skeumorph

'Chest feeder' has also got to be the thickest term I have ever heard, and for a medical establishment to use it is nothing short of embarrassing.

Chests don't feed babies. Breasts do, and men have them too. When men get breast cancer, which they do, we still use the medically correct term.

It's the equivalent of mistaking a heart for an organ only a female has, getting antsy about 'inclusivity' and deciding you'll refer to a heart attack in neutral terms by calling it a ribcage arrest.

Totally moronic.

Not to mention that since "people with cervixes", "menstruators" and "bodies with vaginas" are all apparently acceptable euphemisms despite referring to exclusively female body parts and functions, I'm not sure why the term "breastfeeding" is so problematic.

Do you think being a woman has anything to do with what body parts you have or not? Please be consistent.

I hate it, becoming a mother has much more of an impact on women’s lives than becoming a father does

Take a look at the nhs pages on labour and birth. There isn’t a single mention of woman, women or mother but the word father gets used
www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/labour-and-birth/preparing-for-the-birth/

Urgh birth givers. I that cis was bad

@Viviennemary

Does it really matter. All this frothing. Who cares.

I care!

Does it really matter. All this frothing. Who cares.

If it doesn't matter it can be fucking well left as it was.

Hear hear.