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AIBU?

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Original poster

To wonder how you feel today if you voted for Boris Johnson at the last election?

545 replies

Readyforthegoodlife · 31/01/2022 16:20

It’s absolutely no surprise that Boris is behaving in this way but I cannot actually believe that we have a prime minister like this. He is utterly morally bankrupt. If you voted for him how do you feel now?

OP posts:
Yeahthat · 01/02/2022 20:14

[quote Batholemubrecht]**@Yeahthat* Starmer is leader now and completely different. I guess what is* relevant is that charisma and populist rhetoric do not make an honourable PM. Both options were bad but no one can deny that Johnson wasn't a candidate with questionable morals - we knew that years ago but a plummy accent and patrician bearing seem to impress brits.[/quote]
I haven't seen anyone cite Johnson's 'charisma' as a reason for voting for him in this thread. I'm not sure I buy the "populist rhetoric" thing either - should people vote for politicians which they don't agree with, because they say all the standard things based on the centrist neo-liberal consensus that's ruled for decades, and which seems calculated to score them a lucrative job in the private sector post politics?

This sort of use of the word "populism" every time voters have the option to vote for someone who actually talks about their own concerns and interests, seems like an attempt to gaslight voters.

"I might agree with him but I can't actually vote for him, that would be populism!"

For the record, I do agree that Johnson is utterly incompetent, and that this shouldn't come as a surprise.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 01/02/2022 20:15

I still think Corbyn would have been worse

Wasnt he the guy that said he wanted every house to have broadband? That it was as necessary as electricity and water infrastructure and then a year later the pandemic hit and everyone needed broadband for school and work, what was he thinking the fucking loon

TomPinch · 01/02/2022 20:17

@MarshaBradyo

I was part of last year's lockdown area.

It was a pain in the neck but everyone understood why it was necessary and of course we had our previous success to go on.

Labour support dropped in the last poll (we don't have them that often) from a very high level. There are a few things going on. Judith Collins was a very unpopular leader of the opposition and she's recently been replaced. Also there has been frustration at slow delivery of boosters and other things, plus NZers unable to re-enter NZ. There isn't much aggro about covid restrictions though, apart from some unpopular cranks.

MarshaBradyo · 01/02/2022 20:19

I shudder to think about lockdowns and Corbyn - but who knows what he would have done.

What do people mean by populism btw?

To a certain extent anyone who gets elected offers something people like - what makes it populism?

Yeahthat · 01/02/2022 20:28

@MarshaBradyo

It becomes "populism" when the liberal-left establishment (which regardless of election results, are safely ensconced in our schools, universities, public bodies, and institutions) don't like it.

madisonbridges · 01/02/2022 20:30

@TomPinch

I'm also waiting to hear about why Jacinda Ardern is a tyrant. My view of her and her government is that they are slightly bumbly, amiable, and highly motivated by the public good.

If it's because of NZ's covid restrictions, well that's hilarious. We've had fewer than anyone, over time, because we kept the virus out for so long.

I thought you lived in Copenhagen? Have I confused you with someone else?
TomPinch · 01/02/2022 20:33

I've lived in a few places but not Denmark!

madisonbridges · 01/02/2022 20:36

@JustAnotherPoster00

I still think Corbyn would have been worse

Wasnt he the guy that said he wanted every house to have broadband? That it was as necessary as electricity and water infrastructure and then a year later the pandemic hit and everyone needed broadband for school and work, what was he thinking the fucking loon

I can't think of a recent PM that didn't want everyone to have broadband. Nothing loonish about that. It was the renationalising of BT that caused Corbyn problems.
madisonbridges · 01/02/2022 20:37

@TomPinch

I've lived in a few places but not Denmark!
Then, sorry, I confused you with someone else. x
MarshaBradyo · 01/02/2022 20:45

[quote Yeahthat]@MarshaBradyo

It becomes "populism" when the liberal-left establishment (which regardless of election results, are safely ensconced in our schools, universities, public bodies, and institutions) don't like it.[/quote]
I was thinking that. The ‘wrong’ group voting in large numbers in a way that’s not wanted by other groups, maybe who feel higher up in some way.

All votes are equal though so even if the result is from this group it shouldn’t be undermined imo (and I don’t always get the outcome I vote for either).

truthfullylying · 01/02/2022 21:02

What do people mean by populism btw?

Populism is not the same thing as popular, a populist canbe popular or unpopular. It is about opposing an 'elite'.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-43301423

The true populist leader claims to represent the unified "will of the people". He stands in opposition to an enemy, often embodied by the current system - aiming to "drain the swamp" or tackle the "liberal elite". Vote Leave took an explicitly populist approach.

Perfectlystill · 01/02/2022 21:04

I feel fine, thanks

TomPinch · 01/02/2022 21:07

Isn't 'populism' simply an appeal to the emotions on an issue to avoid a debate on that issue? So it can be both left and right.

So left wing populism would in my view include abolishing faith schools and private schools, demolishing statues of dubious dead luminaries, encouraging hatred of privileged classes etc.

The other thing is that the appeal has to be popular. That means it's tricky to be a left wing populist these days as people are suspicious of the left. I imagine it was the other way round in the 70s.

truthfullylying · 01/02/2022 21:12

@TomPinch

Isn't 'populism' simply an appeal to the emotions on an issue to avoid a debate on that issue? So it can be both left and right.

So left wing populism would in my view include abolishing faith schools and private schools, demolishing statues of dubious dead luminaries, encouraging hatred of privileged classes etc.

The other thing is that the appeal has to be popular. That means it's tricky to be a left wing populist these days as people are suspicious of the left. I imagine it was the other way round in the 70s.

No, it is specifically about opposing an elite, being on the side of 'ordinary people' against a (usually made up) enemy of the people.

Opposing faith schools is anti-populist, as it would be an elite position to take, it would be salt of the earth to want traditional religious values in school. Same with the removal of statues etc.

Yeahthat · 01/02/2022 21:12

@truthfullylying

What do people mean by populism btw?

Populism is not the same thing as popular, a populist canbe popular or unpopular. It is about opposing an 'elite'.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-43301423

The true populist leader claims to represent the unified "will of the people". He stands in opposition to an enemy, often embodied by the current system - aiming to "drain the swamp" or tackle the "liberal elite". Vote Leave took an explicitly populist approach.

Politically loaded definition in a BBC editorial.

The Cambridge Dictionary defines it as:

"Trying to be popular with ordinary people and to represent their ideas and opinions".

truthfullylying · 01/02/2022 21:15

@Yeahthat

You can't explain a political concept in detail with a dictionary definition, it is far too brief. There is nothing wrong with the definition, but it is extremely light on detail.

Of course populists do not like the BBC much Grin

MarshaBradyo · 01/02/2022 21:16

It does tend to take on a pejorative tone and value judgement which undermines the people doing the voting and getting the majority.

truthfullylying · 01/02/2022 21:21

Countries are happiest when more united, populism creates the opposite.

MarshaBradyo · 01/02/2022 21:23

It’s still a way to dismiss. One step from ‘thick’ etc which you see on here a lot.

That dismissive-ness makes people unhappy too and more likely to vote accordingly

truthfullylying · 01/02/2022 21:32

Hmm, populism is a legitimate target for criticism without it being anything to do with calling any voters thick. Populism is not a positive for any nation and is specifically designed to pull people's strings.

Yeahthat · 01/02/2022 21:36

@truthfullylying

But let's be clear - you weren't actually attempting in good faith to define it. You could have gone to many sources but you scoured around for something which editorialised and cited your twin obsessions of brexit and Trump.

It's a term which has become meaningless in general parlance - most people simply see it as another pejorative for anyone who opposes or offers an alternative to a centrist position. It's become about as eye-rolling as the trite "playing on people's fears".

Yeahthat · 01/02/2022 21:37

@truthfullylying

Hmm, populism is a legitimate target for criticism without it being anything to do with calling any voters thick. Populism is not a positive for any nation and is specifically designed to pull people's strings.
In case you haven't noticed, you haven't won an election (or referendum) for a very long time - you won't be defining what's good for the nation any time soon.
truthfullylying · 01/02/2022 21:41

[quote Yeahthat]@truthfullylying

But let's be clear - you weren't actually attempting in good faith to define it. You could have gone to many sources but you scoured around for something which editorialised and cited your twin obsessions of brexit and Trump.

It's a term which has become meaningless in general parlance - most people simply see it as another pejorative for anyone who opposes or offers an alternative to a centrist position. It's become about as eye-rolling as the trite "playing on people's fears".[/quote]
'my twin obsessions' Grin WTF?

I googled and it was top that's all. 'Scoured around' - you are quite a funny onion.

It absolutely is not meaningless in political science.

truthfullylying · 01/02/2022 21:44

In case you haven't noticed, you haven't won an election (or referendum) for a very long time Who is the 'you' here? I am an individual who has never stood for office, I most definitely have never won any election, no.

pigcon1 · 01/02/2022 21:49

He has let the office down. Makes me shudder. No integrity.