To think not having a funeral is OK?

[jevoudrais]

Looking at prepaying funeral or cremation plans for DH and I. I've realised you can do a direct cremation without a funeral service.

Does anyone think this robs anyone of the chance to say goodbye? My brother died last year and the wait for the funeral was horrendous. The funeral was horrendous. I can't say I've found the six funerals I've been to in my life remotely helpful in any way for grieving and such like. I feel they have dragged the grieving out further, if anything.

If we go for direct cremations, are we going to cause our DC issues by taking that experience of planning and attending a funeral away from them?

YANBU - direct cremation sounds easy and simple
YABU - it's not up to you, it's the decision of those left behind (but I fear they would do a funeral because they feel they 'should'?)

I get that you have been in such pain. What about a death where there was no funeral though? Have you experienced that?

When my dh died the funeral was - oh it was so important. Puttibg the coffin in the ground was intensely painful but we shared the pain.

Later at the memorial we found a better place. Ds smiled for the first time in a month - he was surrounded by his friendswho just wanted to help - he'sso bonded to them, ever since. His parents saw that over a hundred people wanted to say goodbye to him. People talked about all the best times in his life and the man he really was. I had cousins come from overseas, my dad came from 60 miles away in his late 80s. Ill never forget it.

Yanbu

Depends on the circumstances but imo funerals make things far worse if you're immediate family/tragic death/young person.

I've buried both parents, only sibling and a best friend. They were torture. I had to put on a performance and it exacerbated my grief. I just wanted to hide. They were traumatic ordeals in themselves.

And the platitudes from the hangers on...

I wouldn't put my kids through that.

There are other options.

A get together, with a celebrant or not, at a time and place of the family’s choosing.

Ash scattering at a place and time if the family’s choosing.

A ceremony in a municipal crematorium that means nothing as a venue does not have to be the default.

Formal funerals in crematoria or churches are not part of our family culture or priorities. Remembering, mourning and celebrating those we love is.

Talk to your family.

In the end, they will do what they most want at the time.

@ShavingTheBadger thanks for sharing your experience. I'm sorry to hear you lost your brother too.

I would be happy for there to be some kind of gathering. I think it's the archaic structure of a funeral and the procession etc that goes with it that I dislike and find upsetting. Something like
other posters have suggested around gatherings to scatter ashes and all coming together is a better option for me. Informal, outdoors, and a lot of the admin junk that needs sorting out before you can say goodbye has all been dealt with.

@jevoudrais

Also if I leave money for a knees up that wouldn't be til a year or so down the line anyway, I don't think you can get probate sorted much sooner than that?!

That's not always the case.

Dad didn't have to wait for probate. They had individual and joint accounts at HSBC. He advised then of her death then took the paperwork and all the cash was transferred straight to him. The house is in joint names etc

If you die before dh, he may not need to wait for probate to have a get together, paid for by you .

My best friend died a couple of years ago. She didn’t want a funeral but a party with her fave music etc. So she was cremated with just five of us there. No music, no words, nothing. I don’t know why we went really. We went out for a meal afterwards. Then we had the wake later. It really didn’t work. People wanted to grieve. We played her music, put up photos, had her urn in the middle, like she wanted, but it was awkward and painful. I think of people had gone to the cream and cried there, they’d possibly have been able to cope with the party not afterwards.

I think that with the wait times for death certificates and cremation slots, the process can already be very disjointed.

DF died suddenly so had to have a PM and we didn't even get a death certificate for 4 weeks. Then it was another 3 weeks before we could get a slot at the crematorium, and that was if we were willing to go in at 8:30am.

I think a directed cremation with instructions and money for a wake would have been much better.

The family are in control of the timeline and can make it a celebration. I was living abroad when he died and was in limbo for weeks, not knowing whether to go back home or wait for the funeral. With small kids, it was horrendous.

As long as you make people aware what and why you are planning, I think it would be fine.

@user1491404899

Working in this industry I see alot of families hurt by direct cremation. We get them sobbing at our door asking why their loved one isn't allowing them to grieve. Often direct cremations aren't done locally, you are shipped off to a central crem often miles away. So family can't even come to 'wave you off'.

Please discuss what you want with your family but please listen to what they want too.

Funerals are for the living not the dead.

That is why families need to discuss plans beforehand so it doesn't come as a surprise. I disagree with you about funerals being for the living. Why should I pay for something I don't want or believe in, and find abhorrent?

This is what I've planned.

My kids know, and understand and there's no feeling of "fuck you"

Funerals are just the absolute worst, having arranged 2 for my children I don't want anyone having that pressure for me when I die.

YANBU people should respect your wishes.

Funerals are very much for the living. I am not a fan and would like minimal fuss when I pop my clogs.

I think if your children are of an age where you can discuss it with them, fair enough. If there's a way to express your wishes without arranging it so they get no say as to whether or not it happens like that, also fair enough. I personally find funerals a useful way of saying goodbye and have found with other things that traditional rituals follow an easy, predictable path for reasons of comfort and practicality. I'm aware not everyone feels like that and there's no 'right' way of saying goodbye to a loved one though.

The thing I would worry about with an all arranged no funeral procedure is that those left behind would feel that you hadn't factored in their grief into the arrangements and that they were obliged to grieve in exactly the way you thought best. I guess all that is very much dependent on the relationship that existed when the dead person was alive, too.

When my DD was cremated we had a service at the crem.
Then his ashes were put in a grave, with a funeral director digging the hole and placing them in.
Looking back, it would have been better to go for straight cremation and then a ‘service’ at the graveside for the ashes being placed in the grave.

I really think it's quite awful to call a tradition that gives some people alot of comfort and happiness "archaic" and "abhorrent" tbh.

It is down to the people left behind to respect the wishes of of dead. If the deceased wises was for there to be no funeral service than so be it. I personally hate funerals and find they can be false with relatives there that haven't been seen for ages! I would be relieved if there wasn't one and feel it takes away nothing. I believe can pay your respects anywhere in your own special way, light a candle or say a few words it, it doesn't have to be with sometimes a load of strangers in a set time and place.

user1491404899

Working in this industry I see alot of families hurt by direct cremation.
We get them sobbing at our door asking why their loved one isn't allowing them to grieve. Often direct cremations aren't done locally, you are shipped off to a central crem often miles away. So family can't even come to 'wave you off'.

Please discuss what you want with your family but please listen to what they want too.

Funerals are for the living not the dead“

Completely disagree. It’s the deceased last wish and should be respected.

As an aside, the cost of traditional funerals are outrageous and completely unjustifiable, leaving countless families in debt at one of the worst times of their lives.

Your “industry” should perhaps focus on that rather than the emotive nonsense (which frankly I don’t believe).

Are your DC old enough to consult?

Personally I do find that funerals give closure and I would be heartbroken if my parents decided they didn’t want one, the idea of just disappearing and never having a chance to gather and reflect on their lives sounds awful. But if we’d spoken about it and they were really clear about it I’d respect that. I’d hate it though.

@SomewhereOnlyIKnow

When my DD was cremated we had a service at the crem. Then his ashes were put in a grave, with a funeral director digging the hole and placing them in. Looking back, it would have been better to go for straight cremation and then a ‘service’ at the graveside for the ashes being placed in the grave.

Sorry, that should be DF.

A relative of mine opted for this, quite unexpectedly. At first we found it quite difficult as Covid delayed us being able to organise something ourselves and so there was no 'goodbye' for some time, which felt quite wrong.

However, once restrictions eased we were able to bury the ashes. About a dozen of us, just close family gathered together, it was very personal, some people said a few words, the ashes were buried by us and flowers planted before we went to grab a bite to eat together.

Honestly, it was the best way I can think of to say goodbye to someone. I find funerals, with their artificial formality, music and set way of doing things quite difficult. This just felt more honest, and being hands on and not having lots of unfamiliar faces around really helped.

I would be tempted to opt for this myself now. However, only after a chat to all of my family that they would be ok with it and the practicalities (obviously it is a lot to ask for people to organise something themselves, plus, I think there are certain restrictions like not being able to visit the deceased after, or give clothes for them to be dressed in - though maybe that depends on what you opt for. But it's important to be aware of those things).

We did find it hard to begin with, but came to see the wisdom of our relatives choice in the end. One thing that I found unexpectedly difficult was that there was a fair bit of judgement from others, as though we were bad people for respecting their wishes and not having a funeral. Which is something to consider. I found that quite hurtful.

the*

We're planning that and have told the children, who are all grown up. My 3 are fine about it, my dh's son seems a bit iffy about it but when we've definitely sorted it will have another chat. They can celebrate our lives with a drink/ dinner/ meeting to scatter the ashes etc and to remember us, but we have been to too many funerals lately to want that for us and them. I think it's very practical.

I didn't realise this was an option. I will talk to DH about it as - and this may be contentious- I find funerals to be a massive waste of money. I'd rather the bare minimum was spent on mine and then the money saved used for people to have a meal out to remember me by.

No-one needs a body to have a memorial.

i won’t be having a funeral and it’s not up for discussion. If my family want a memorial they’re welcome to do so, but the presence or absence of a body doesn’t matter, it’s not as if I’m going to be there.

As it happens my parents feel the same way anyway.

Although saying that, I did go to a humanist funeral, no hymns, no bible reading etc and it was the best one I've been to, so that might be an option?

@AlDanvers I said archaic, but I didn't say abhorrent.

To me funerals are very old fashioned. Even chapels at crematoriums feel like religious buildings. The template services are the same layout as religious services have been for decades. It's the very definition of old fashioned. Only two of the six funerals I have attended were for people who were religious, yet all felt very religious and old fashioned.