To think not having a funeral is OK?

[jevoudrais]

Looking at prepaying funeral or cremation plans for DH and I. I've realised you can do a direct cremation without a funeral service.

Does anyone think this robs anyone of the chance to say goodbye? My brother died last year and the wait for the funeral was horrendous. The funeral was horrendous. I can't say I've found the six funerals I've been to in my life remotely helpful in any way for grieving and such like. I feel they have dragged the grieving out further, if anything.

If we go for direct cremations, are we going to cause our DC issues by taking that experience of planning and attending a funeral away from them?

YANBU - direct cremation sounds easy and simple
YABU - it's not up to you, it's the decision of those left behind (but I fear they would do a funeral because they feel they 'should'?)

As someone who organises funerals it is really helpful if instructions are left in writing. I've had families hunt through a house to find the will and funeral arrangements when an aunt died suddenly and she had told different people different versions of what she wanted. Everyone wanted to respect her wishes but which ones?

People say they don't want a funeral and that is fine. What gets lost is the importance of ritual which is part of the grieving process. Up until the mid 20th century everyone got the same funeral. No name. No eulogy. Book of Common Prayer, Twenty minutes and it was done. Now there is choice which is great but there is something about coming together as a family and marking the end of a life and the new family structure which the funeral does. If there is no funeral then something needs to happen in its place. There is no reason why it can't be a family meal or wake or scattering of ashes somewhere important. Be creative. Humans have created rituals around death for as long as we have been human and that does need some thought.

I am coming across more and more people with a sort of delayed grief that comes out when there is a formal church funeral as they didn't get the ritual they didn't realise they need for other deaths.

YANBU. DH's sister died 5years ago. She lived in Cornwall. We were told it would cost a lot to bring her back up to South London, and she had said that she didn't want any fuss. We had a direct cremation and we went out for dinner on the day. We had an afternoon tea in a local hotel to remember her, and had the ashes buried in Essex with her late partner. Some cousins attended and we had a lunch after that.

DH has already said that's what he would like.

Completely agree. It's in my will that I wish to go straight to cremation without any of the service etc

I've been to enough funerals to not wish that upon the few that love me. It is hideous and I'm forever surprised we put ourselves through such misery.

@jevoudrais

Looking at prepaying funeral or cremation plans for DH and I. I've realised you can do a direct cremation without a funeral service.

Does anyone think this robs anyone of the chance to say goodbye? My brother died last year and the wait for the funeral was horrendous. The funeral was horrendous. I can't say I've found the six funerals I've been to in my life remotely helpful in any way for grieving and such like. I feel they have dragged the grieving out further, if anything.

If we go for direct cremations, are we going to cause our DC issues by taking that experience of planning and attending a funeral away from them?

YANBU - direct cremation sounds easy and simple
YABU - it's not up to you, it's the decision of those left behind (but I fear they would do a funeral because they feel they 'should'?)

We'll probably do this and my children are more than happy with it.

Saves them all the stress and expense and they can say their 'goodbyes' when they deal with the ashes.

I trained as a teacher many moons ago.
During a module on pastoral care, my lecturer remarked how clinical death had become and how far removed we were coming from it. It was therefore harder for children to understand it being a part of life when they weren't exposed to it.
I'm Irish and Catholic and we have always had the full Irish funeral. Remains brought home for the 2 day wake(friends, family and acquaintances of the deceased and of the bereaved coming to visit and pay their respects/offer support) and then funeral mass with catering/tea/soup afterwards for people to chat and mingle.
I've been at wakes and funerals my whole life. My first I remember was around the age of 11. Death was so normal (without being morbid) and it was such a nice way to sit around and remember your loved one and see people you haven't seen for ages.
When my grandfather (who was English and originally COE but converted to marry a Catholic girl) died, his brothers and sisters flew in for the wake & funeral and had to be briefed on what to expect when they came into the house. That was the first time I realised that not everyone had wakes and funerals like us.
Can someone explain why there is such a long wait between the passing and burial/cremation of someone in England? Is it a logistics thing?
Usually the undertaker and priest arrive at the wake house and organise everything with the next of kin in an hour or so.

100% agree, if it wasn’t so socially unacceptable I wouldn’t have gone to my mums funeral. It was horrific and did not help me in any way.

We did this for my MIL. There was only me and my sister. No other family. Most of her friends had already gone and there was no money. We did it for financial reasons but actually realised during the process that the funeral industry is designed to guilt you into spending money.

I am coming across more and more people with a sort of delayed grief that comes out when there is a formal church funeral as they didn't get the ritual they didn't realise they need for other deaths.
@mostlydrinkstea me too.

We had a direct burial for my mum in 2016. No issues.

@wishihadagoodone I'm no expert but I think it's a sequence of effects of various kinds, but fundamentally it's not considered normal/essential for anyone but family and very close friends to attend an English funeral (no idea re Scotland or Wales). (I had more distant connections ask me if it was ok for them to attend dh's!) With the result that it's not prioritised so people don't get time off work for them. With the result that if you do have a lot of friends and family to attend, it's going to have to happen at the weekend. But i think most people are cremated now. But crematoria only operate during limited hours at weekends. So there's a huge pressure on slots. Hence a long wait.

I didn't mind the wait, actually. I guess I'm used to it. I had to wait for a postmortem anyway. In the end the gap was 5 weeks and I felt just about ready to cope by then.

With all that... Jewish and Muslim funerals continue to operate on the next-day timescale that religious obligation requires.

You don't need a traditional funeral but I do thing some sort of occasion helps people, some people choose direct cremation but still have a wake/reception where a few people give speeches for instance. I know one family who had a memorial picnic and invited the vicar along to say a few words

Where I am most people who go for cremation get cremated very soon after death and memorial services are held afterwards, sometimes a week later, sometimes several months later, but the cremation always seems to happen first.

I said I didn’t want a funeral and I didn’t want my ashes buried or placed in any one particular place; I want to be everywhere and nowhere at the same time. I don’t want my family feeling obliged to visit or maintain a gravesite. MIL was horrified and said I MUST have a final resting place for the sake of the kids etc. 🤷‍♀️

I don't hold any religious beliefs i hate the idea of some meaningless nonsense that my family would have to pay for! Funerals are bigg fuss money making scheme of expectation and exploiting the bereaved.

I've made it very clear to my family i really want just the legal bare bones (pun slightly intended) and whatever then works for them.

Does anyone think this robs anyone of the chance to say goodbye?

Yes.
Like so many others, I find a funeral cathartic and an immensely important part of the grieving process. I understand what @astoundedgoat means (and she did clarify she was NOT talking about children's funerals, but was specifically talking about after an older person has died after a full and happy life). What I find to be much more common in recent years is a 'Celebration of Life' or a 'Thanksgiving Service' after the cremation - and I think this is a really positive thing.
OP I don't think your limited experience of funerals has given you perhaps enough of a look at how funerals can be. I don't recognise the 6 week wait and I don't recognise 'being in processions' as part of my experience of going to loads of funerals.
I can see that a Church service isn't for everyone - obviously particularly people who aren't Church goers - but I do think a "coming together" of people who are grieving is a really important part of the grieving process for most people.
Indeed, I knew someone who had donated her body for medical research so there was no body to cremate, and who had no religious belief so she had said no funeral. After a couple of months, her dh made the difficult decision to then arrange something as it just felt so wrong to have just 'carried on' without a chance to come together and say goodbye.

I would not be happy about this with a member of my family. Organising the funeral gives you something "to do" at a very difficult time - something practical. It provides a focal point for your initial grief.
Where I'm from funerals happen quickly so there isn't the wait the OP refers to.

My mum didn't have a funeral and I don't really care, nothing would have made anyone feel better.

I've been to enough funerals to not wish that upon the few that love me. It is hideous and I'm forever surprised we put ourselves through such misery.

That is exactly the way I feel. I would rather remember the person as I last saw them, and don't feel any sort of need to "say goodbye" (I don't understand what the point of that is) with a funeral service. I had a direct cremation for my DM and have never felt any sort of "delayed grief" from not having a service. My DF now wants one for himself.

Can someone explain why there is such a long wait between the passing and burial/cremation of someone in England? Is it a logistics thing?

That's something I have often wondered. I'm in NZ and funerals are usually held within a few days of the death.

I recently lost my Grandmother, who had been ill for a few years now. Her passing was a relief as she was suffering towards the end. As I live in a different country and travel was next to impossible, I watched her funeral online. I took the day off work and expected to be distraught ( we were very close growing up.) However, I wasn't. I just felt a bit sad but not much else. On reflection, I think I had already grieved her passing as her disease progressed. The funeral imho was a formality but did nothing to aid my grieving process.

My dad has said he wants a direct cremation with no funeral, no memorial, no wake etc.

I do find it sad, as I would prefer to have a funeral for him when the time comes but I have promised him that I’ll respect his wishes. His life, his death and up to him what happens is my view.

I don’t want a funeral. There is a piece of music and a poem that I would like people to read/listen to in their own time if they want to remember me. Neither are anything to do with me but I come from a musical background and the poem captures what I think is important in life. I’d also prefer not to be in a jar on anyone’s sideboard (but have no special place I care to be scattered).

It’s not just that I don’t see the point - I actively don’t want people formally gathered while someone witters on about me.

@Porcupineintherough

All those of you stating that the living can make a decision - does that mean they can go against clear wishes/religious faith.

Yep. I mean I'm sure it would be difficult to give an Orthodox Jew a Christian burial (hopefully the vicar would refuse) but no one can make your relatives either give you a religious burial or insist they do. It may be morally wrong but it's not illegal.

I'm sure you would find it insulting if the dead person had arranged for a fancy funeral and their relatives went 'sod that' we'll keep the money and have them directly cremated instead.

Yes and no. If its prepaid its one thing but when you die your accounts are frozen (unless they are joint accounts). So there may not be cash immediately available to pay for a fancy funeral, even if the sum might eventually be reclaimed from your estate. Alternatively if it is a joint account then the surviving member is not legally obliged to shell out for an expensive funeral, even if you wished it.

The dead have very limited control over what happens after their death, except via their wills which are not dealt with quickly enough to deal with funerals.

If you prepay a funeral before you die, that money goes to the funeral company you nominated. (Some funeral prepay plans are done via specific funeral homes, some are not - and they can be transferred if, for instance, the plan was taken out decades ago and the nominated-at-the-time funeral home no longer exists). If you die without a prepaid plan, the one payment your bank will happily make on request is to the funeral directrs (unless you died with less than the cost of a funeral in the bank). Paying for your funeral doesn't have to wait for probate.

I have also told certain members of my family that I want a direct funeral/ cremation.
If it is good enough of David Bowie, it is good enough for me!!

Part of the reason you may have to wait is legal: if the person's death was unexpected ie they did not have a terminal illness/were not at the stage of 'end of life care' and particularly if their own doctor hadn't seen them as a patient for a few weeks, then a coroner will be involved and there will be a postmortem. And you can't have the funeral until the coroner's office sign the relevant form.
Most funeral firms will book a date for you while you're waiting for the coroner's paperwork on the understanding that it might have to change. But, again, as I posted upthread, where you live is another factor in terms of the availability of crematoria/cemeteries.

My father in law was adamant that he didn't want a funeral. We respected his wishes and we scattered his ashes (in the place he requested) as a small group of close family and then went for a meal afterwards, so I suppose there was a sort of informal memorial. I don't feel that I or any of the others 'missed out' on any sense of closure through doing it in this unconventional manner.

Having said the above, I do feel that funerals are for the living and with that in mind I would allow the people left behind to make the choice (perhaps stating how you feel in case it sways the decision).