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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Manners - am I living in the past?

221 replies

NellyDElephant · 27/01/2022 18:14

AIBU to expect my children to say, at the very minimum, thank you for dinner, please may I leave the table? Or something along those lines, after they have finished the meal I have just made them, straight after coming home from a long day at work?
Children are 7, 10, 12, 13.
Surely I’m not expecting the impossible here? Or am I living in the past and trying to help them to have the same manners I was expected to have at that age is just not going to happen?
12yr old is my DSD and it is evident these rules are not in place at her DM’s house - as there’s no evidence of any manners displayed here either. Now I’m questioning whether I’m BU!

OP posts:
Original poster
NellyDElephant · 27/01/2022 20:44

We tend to all eat together at weekends.
On a weeknight, the children normally want to eat by about 6pm, so I cook for them then.
Once the children are sorted - younger ones into pjs then bed / homework done / baths / packed lunches made / 4 x uniforms out for next day / couple of loads of laundry done / dishwasher emptied / dog walked - then the adults get to eat, around 9pm ish. Obviously this is flexible depending which DC has an activity on which night - we sometimes have 3 sittings for dinner - to accommodate who is in or out, at what time.

OP posts:
SniffMyFeet · 27/01/2022 20:45

Etiquette is respect consideration and honesty @givethatbabyaname, us bastard brits eh? how bloody dare we 🙄

Solasum · 27/01/2022 20:48

I think children asking to leave the table is a bit twee, and it always grates on me.

I expect DC to stay at the table until everyone has finished, and then clear up their own stuff without being asked, to say please if asking for anything, and thank you when they are given food at the beginning and afterwards too if they are in someone else’s house. I also expect them to be able to conduct conversations during meals, without interrupting anyone or talking with their mouths full. It really does seem to be a dying art.

XmasElf10 · 27/01/2022 20:48

My 10 year old doesn’t thank me for dinner but knows she can’t leave the table until everyone has finished, she has to ask to leave (but I’ll accept a meaningful look if there is an ongoing conversation she doesn’t want to interrupt). She also knows she needs to take her plate into the kitchen. However we have insisted on this since she was little and it’s not something I think she really notices know… she just does it!

JustLyra · 27/01/2022 20:49

@NellyDElephant

Her DF is still at work during children’s mealtimes. So it’s just on me. I either mention it to her at the time, and get the ‘look’ from her, or mention it to him when he’s home from work and look like I’m stirring the pot, I suppose. I don’t want to be the evil SM! But equally, I want polite DSC and DC Confused
It’s still the job of the adults with the majority care to install manners in a child.

That your DH doesn’t bother doesn’t make it her mother’s fault.

The “evil SM” trope is one you are falling into as much by the placing of the blame on her mother as you are by pulling up poor manners.
She’d likely pull the “I don’t have to do that at home” card if her mother tried.

JudgeJ · 27/01/2022 20:50

@saveforthat

No please carry on teaching manners to your children. While sadly a lot of parents don't bother, I agree manners are very important. I hope you make them clear and load dishwasher or wash up.
It's not simply that other parents don't bother teach their children good manners, or any social skills, they are very mocking of anyone who does have good manners. I used to lose count of the number of times on school corridors I would say Excuse me, to pass lurking pupils and the response was often Why, wotyerdun?
JudgeJ · 27/01/2022 20:52

@Momicrone

Of course everyone should say thanks, but you sound a bit passive aggressive about your sd, why single her out
Stating a fact is not passive aggression if that's the OP's experience.
givethatbabyaname · 27/01/2022 20:55

@SniffMyFeet

What's the difference between a soup spoon and a tablespoon, in terms of "respect consideration and honesty"? Or a fish knife and a table knife, a cake fork and a regular fork?

What's the point of this, if not to show that you know, so are in the know?

It's bollocks. Pure and simple. And if you feel affronted by that, it's because you want to retain the ability to differentiate.

Note, I haven't chosen as my examples elbows on tables, speaking with food in your mouth, knowing how to use a napkin properly, lining up your cutlery on your plate when you've finished. These are good manners that impact the people you're sharing a table with.

Exhausteddog · 27/01/2022 20:57

YANBU.
Several other parents have commented that my DC have had good manners even when they were about 5 .(not meant to be a brag, I thought they had standard manners) However i notice when they have friends round, how many don't even say please or thank you, and that's apart from throwing food and answering back , or not even bothering to answer if I ask if they would like something, so maybe it is unusual.

bigbluebus · 27/01/2022 20:57

My DS has never had to ask to get down from the table as the expectation was always that everyone stays at the table until all have finished eating. If anyone needs to leave as they are going out then they would say "excuse me" as they leave.
Please and thank you is always expected if something needs passing at the table but I don't really expect to be thanked for preparing a meal but DS does say it sometimes.

DillDanding · 27/01/2022 20:57

I loathe bad manners.

My kids have never in their lives asked to leave the table, because no-one leaves the table when the meal is still in progress. That’s not a house rule, it’s just polite.

They’ve had friends here who have no manners whatsoever.

Frazzled50yrold · 27/01/2022 20:59

I was in a restaurant a few months ago and was genuinely amazed to see the males at the next table, even the approx 10yr old boy stand when their mother left and came back to the table.I was so impressed.

Innocenta · 27/01/2022 21:00

I'm in my early thirties, have a sibling in their twenties, and we were brought up with the expectation of asking to leave the table ('please may I get down?'). I don't think it's as outdated as some are claiming; my parents are not particularly conservative people at all.

My partner and I don't have DC, but I guess to me this still seems like a perfectly reasonable expectation! At least for little ones, probably not teens.

Strokethefurrywall · 27/01/2022 21:02

My kids have good manners, always say please and thank you and will ask if they can be excused.
They know to clear their plate and put in the dishwasher.

I don’t tolerate bad manners in the house from anyone. Thankfully most of the kids that come over are polite so that’s something…

DysmalRadius · 27/01/2022 21:02

Quick question - what is rude about leaving the table when others are eating? Presumably if the person who has finished is engaged in conversation, then they won't leave anyway, but if they are done with the meal and have other things they would like to do, what is the benefit to making them stay at the table?

QueBarbaridad · 27/01/2022 21:03

I don’t know, but more than forty years ago when I was twelve I would have felt completely humiliated to be expected to behave like that.

Toomanypeople · 27/01/2022 21:07

Please and thank you always but I've never told them to ask to leave the table. If we are all eating together we generally chat until the last person finishes but often with different schedules that may only be Sunday dinner

Secnarf · 27/01/2022 21:07

@Giraffesandbottoms

I had a friend come round and her 3 year old didn’t say thank you once, and when I asked her about it (because) my then 2 year old was very good with his pleases and thank yous she said “I can’t be bothered with all that you have to keep nagging them”. 😳

I despair. Your children sound delightful and are welcome at mine any time!

But you don’t have to keep nagging them.

I hadn’t thought about it until reading this thread, but when I cook, my husband always thanks me, and vice versa. My daughter always has thanked the cook too because that was the done thing.

I haven’t brought her up to ask to leave the table, but it was the habit in both our childhood households that everyone sits and chats at dinner, and then everyone gets up and hells clear the table/wash up etc. So I don’t think it occurs to her to want to leave the table early.

Innocenta · 27/01/2022 21:08

@givethatbabyaname A soup spoon is easier to eat soup with!

Pumperthepumper · 27/01/2022 21:12

@NellyDElephant

We tend to all eat together at weekends. On a weeknight, the children normally want to eat by about 6pm, so I cook for them then. Once the children are sorted - younger ones into pjs then bed / homework done / baths / packed lunches made / 4 x uniforms out for next day / couple of loads of laundry done / dishwasher emptied / dog walked - then the adults get to eat, around 9pm ish. Obviously this is flexible depending which DC has an activity on which night - we sometimes have 3 sittings for dinner - to accommodate who is in or out, at what time.
So there’s absolutely nothing your husband could do for his own child?
givethatbabyaname · 27/01/2022 21:13

@Innocenta

Depends on the spoon! And the soup: yes to a veloute or broth-y type of soup, no to a chunky soup. A soup spoon is made to be held parallel to the face, for sipping from. Impossible to eat from neatly when you've a cube of potato floating in the middle of it. But theoretically, yes, it could be. The point is that etiquette demands that a soup spoon be used. Really? Why?

(Also, you can't get into the 'edges' of the bowl with a soup spoon, you need a pointy edge sometimes)

DillDanding · 27/01/2022 21:15

@Frazzled50yrold

I was in a restaurant a few months ago and was genuinely amazed to see the males at the next table, even the approx 10yr old boy stand when their mother left and came back to the table.I was so impressed.
I’d laugh if my sons did this. Ludicrous, anachronistic and patronising.
DeadGood · 27/01/2022 21:17

“ But the rude little shits who don’t clear their plates…”

Not clearing your plate is not bad mannered, for Christ’s sake

PinkSyCo · 27/01/2022 21:18

My kids have always said thank you after their dinner. Your DSD spends a lot more time with you and her DF than she does her DM so why haven’t you bothered to teach her manners?

SniffMyFeet · 27/01/2022 21:18

@givethatbabyaname there's a lot of difference actually, but etiquette means you wouldn't belittle someone by drawing attention to it. Respect & consideration
If they asked advice we'd be honest
You were criticising British etiquette though not good manners

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