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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Manners - am I living in the past?

221 replies

NellyDElephant · 27/01/2022 18:14

AIBU to expect my children to say, at the very minimum, thank you for dinner, please may I leave the table? Or something along those lines, after they have finished the meal I have just made them, straight after coming home from a long day at work?
Children are 7, 10, 12, 13.
Surely I’m not expecting the impossible here? Or am I living in the past and trying to help them to have the same manners I was expected to have at that age is just not going to happen?
12yr old is my DSD and it is evident these rules are not in place at her DM’s house - as there’s no evidence of any manners displayed here either. Now I’m questioning whether I’m BU!

OP posts:
Benjispruce5 · 27/01/2022 18:51

Also, no phones at the table!

HelloFrostyMorning · 27/01/2022 18:53

I do agree that manners need to be taught to children, and a 'thanks mum!' wouldn't go amiss.

But I HATE it when someone gives something/a gift to a child, and before the child can say 'thank you,' the mother says (with a scowl, and her hand on her hip) 'WHAT DO YOU SAY THEN?!!!' I HATE that!

A child having to ask to leave the table is a bit Victorian tbh. Never got ours to do that, and shockingly, they are well-balanced, affable, polite, intelligent young women.

I imagine the people who insist children ask to leave the table, are the same type who insist a man asks his girlfriend's father for her hand in marriage. (Urgh!) Confused

As pps have said, why should a child ask to leave the table, when adults don't have to? Is this the disingenuous 'don't do as I do, do as I say' codswallop?

interferingma · 27/01/2022 18:53

There's a flip side to manners which are drilled and expected. My childhood in the 1960s and 70s was all about manners. We literally had to say please and thank you and get permission for everything. It turned me into a rather reserved child who didn't feel
She had a place in the world. I have gotten over it. But it left a mark with my own parenting. I never wanted my own children to feel cowed.
As it happens I think I've modelled ok manners.. please and thank you and can I help you? But I've never insisted they ask to leave the table. They've now well functioning 20 somethings.

LottiesLaundry · 27/01/2022 18:56

thank you for dinner
Yes, this is only polite.

Please may I leave the table?
Not once they're 8/9 or over. At that age they can assess if dinner is finished or express it differently. It feels too forced and is patronising to expect of a 10 year old. At 9 and over children will have sufficient awareness and social skills to know what's involved in dinner time, the it's finished and what expectations are around leaving the table, cleaning up and so on. I'd hate for my 11 year old to ask for permission to leave the table. I do expect, however, thank you for dinner, may I have please, or volunteering to help clear up.

SquirrelG · 27/01/2022 18:58

I believe children should be taught manners, but I wouldn't expect to be thanked for every meal, nor to be asked permission to leave the table (as long as they wait until everyone has finished eating).

TheChosenTwo · 27/01/2022 18:58

My dc don’t need permission to leave the table but will always thank whoever has made it. Basic manners.
No one leaves the table until everyone has finished anyway unless it’s a long drawn out affair (like a gathering of us and we’re sitting with wine etc, just chatting around the table, the littlest one usually crawls under the table to make his escape at this point.
Manners cost absolutely nothing, please and thank you are words taught very early on.

IthinkIsawahairbrushbackthere · 27/01/2022 18:58

I didn't expect to be thanked for meals but I did expect please and thankyou when things were passed around the table and if I made and passed them a snack or a drink separately.

I remember having to say "please may I get down" even if it was just me and my parents but I don't remember that with my children at all. I think it was more likely that we were all crammed into the dining room and we would all have to move together - and help clear up.

Fairylightsongs · 27/01/2022 18:58

Yes that’s my issue with “please may I leave the table” I do find it antiquated and about control and I certainly do not think a child saying it is good mannered,

. Adults don’t say it and would find it demeaning to be made to do so. So we shouldn’t teach children they need to. We should teach them the correct manner and lead by example, Ie this is why we stay till everyone finishes and if we can’t then we say excuse me.

Allsorts1 · 27/01/2022 19:00

That said, my mum was the SLOWEST EATER IN THE WORLD and it would drive me mad having to wait for her to finish. So I think this rule should only apply if you eat at a normal pace. 🤣

QuornSausagesAreTheDevilsPenis · 27/01/2022 19:02

I imagine the people who insist children ask to leave the table, are the same type who insist a man asks his girlfriend's father for her hand in marriage. (Urgh!) confused

As pps have said, why should a child ask to leave the table, when adults don't have to? Is this the disingenuous 'don't do as I do, do as I say' codswallop?

We don't insist the dc ask, they just do. As do me and dh if we need to leave mid-meal or before someone else has finished. And I or their father wouldn't give a shiny shite if we were or were not asked permission to wed!

I say please and thank you to my dc, and I do think that modelling the behaviour you want is the best way to get it.
Do as I say not as I do is bollocks too.

ToughLoveLDN · 27/01/2022 19:05

I have the exact same issue with my 7 year old DSS. Drives me potty. Manners cost nothing and do make a big impression!

Original poster
NellyDElephant · 27/01/2022 19:05

Tonight’s example has just illustrated it all really.
They were all called down for dinner, together, DSD finished first, got up, put her empty plate by the sink and left the kitchen without a word.
My children were still eating, and when they had finished, asked to leave the table, and said thank you for dinner.
It grates on me every time, but it’s clear these manners are not being pushed/insisted upon at DSD’s Mum’s house.
(DSD lives with us during week and sees DM EOW, her younger sister does the opposite, lives with DM during week and sees us EOW - their weekends are together at either household. Her manners are no better, we have to give constant reminders of ‘please’ and ‘thank you’ when she’s here too. I can’t blame them at all - they just haven’t been taught)

Wondering if I’m a dinosaur though! Or just evil stepmother? Or both?!

OP posts:
Wendybyrdesmissingconscience · 27/01/2022 19:06

It’s vital to keep encouraging manners. The number of times I hear young people saying “can I get” in a shop, with no please, thank you, kiss my arse or anything, drive me mad.

NeverChange · 27/01/2022 19:06

We were always thought to use "may I please leave the table", together with no elbows on the table, don't lick the knife, hold cutlery properly etc.

That said, it kind of was something that died out when we were older in that nobody got up until everyone finished eating etc. Given your kids are now older, it's probably not necessary.

Also with regard to your DSD, probably best pick your battles and this one probably isn't worth fighting. Insist on general politeness, yes but overly specific terms, I wouldn't bother.

thisgardenlife · 27/01/2022 19:08

Manners are a life skill worth embracing at an early age.

The basics we taught:
Napkins (or is it serviettes?) should be unfolded and placed on laps.
Don't start eating until everyone has been served.
Say thank you and if desired, please pass the salt / pepper / gravy.
Elbows off the table while eating.
Hold cutlery properly with forefingers down the length of the knife or fork (as opposed to cradled in your palm). The correct form is forearms up, wrists bent, hands down and elbows tucked in.
If using a fork only, put down your knife and transfer the fork to your right hand.
Don't shovel peas onto an upturned fork - press the peas onto the downfacing fork and aim to get them in your mouth quickly before they roll off.
Spoon soup away from you. (Lift spoon to mouth, do not lower your mouth to the spoon)
Don't leave the table until everyone has finished.
If you have to leave the table (for a good reason) and you are a child, say 'please may I leave the table'. An adult shouldn't need to leave the table while eating, but if they must, they should just say 'excuse me' and leave with the minimum of fuss.

Which is what I was taught. Which is all very well but our adult children clearly weren't paying attention.

SniffMyFeet · 27/01/2022 19:12

I agree with you they stop asking when they are old enough to see when it's appropriate to leave like adults do
The not saying please or thank you would drive me mad. I'd have to say something
It's setting them up to look rude when in reality they haven't been taught any better

thisgardenlife · 27/01/2022 19:14

I didn't mean cradled in your palm, I meant don't hold your knife and fork like a pencil.

waterlego · 27/01/2022 19:14

We put a fair bit of emphasis on manners when our DCs were little. It was the way DH and I had both been brought up so it felt natural to pass it on to our own DCs. It’s often been commented on positively over the years, by other family members and parents of their friends when they’ve been for play dates etc. They still ask to leave the table now, aged 16 and 13. Grin

Of course I wouldn’t expect adults to ask the permission of their partner or friends to leave the table, but I would expect them to excuse themselves politely. eg, if OH is going somewhere or needs to do some work after dinner, he’ll say something like: ‘hope no one minds if I get down, I need to go and do xyz’

The DCs are in the habit of saying ‘please may I leave the table?’ just because it’s automatic to them, but that’s no longer an expectation from us, and I expect it to eventually be replaced by politely excusing themselves rather than asking permission.

FiddleFigs · 27/01/2022 19:23

I absolutely insisted on good table manners from the start with DD. So at 8, she’s well versed in pleases, thank yous, and may-I-get-down-from-the-tables, the latter only allowed when she’s got someone to play with (eg, cousins at Easter and Christmas), and grown-ups are going to be ages over dinner. At normal dinner time, she’s expected to sit at the table until we’re all done.

My parents were pretty draconian about table manners, and it’s obviously stuck!

JustLyra · 27/01/2022 19:37

@NellyDElephant

Tonight’s example has just illustrated it all really. They were all called down for dinner, together, DSD finished first, got up, put her empty plate by the sink and left the kitchen without a word. My children were still eating, and when they had finished, asked to leave the table, and said thank you for dinner. It grates on me every time, but it’s clear these manners are not being pushed/insisted upon at DSD’s Mum’s house. (DSD lives with us during week and sees DM EOW, her younger sister does the opposite, lives with DM during week and sees us EOW - their weekends are together at either household. Her manners are no better, we have to give constant reminders of ‘please’ and ‘thank you’ when she’s here too. I can’t blame them at all - they just haven’t been taught)

Wondering if I’m a dinosaur though! Or just evil stepmother? Or both?!

If your DSD lives with you and she was allowed to do what she did then the manners are not being installed/insisted upon in your house so why is the focus on her Mum? Surely it’s down to your husband and you to deal with that when she lives with you?
DysmalRadius · 27/01/2022 19:49

@NellyDElephant

Tonight’s example has just illustrated it all really. They were all called down for dinner, together, DSD finished first, got up, put her empty plate by the sink and left the kitchen without a word. My children were still eating, and when they had finished, asked to leave the table, and said thank you for dinner. It grates on me every time, but it’s clear these manners are not being pushed/insisted upon at DSD’s Mum’s house. (DSD lives with us during week and sees DM EOW, her younger sister does the opposite, lives with DM during week and sees us EOW - their weekends are together at either household. Her manners are no better, we have to give constant reminders of ‘please’ and ‘thank you’ when she’s here too. I can’t blame them at all - they just haven’t been taught)

Wondering if I’m a dinosaur though! Or just evil stepmother? Or both?!

So she lives with you most of the time, but you're still blaming her mother for her manners because of the two weekends a month she spends there? Or have I misunderstood?
Fairylightsongs · 27/01/2022 19:50

If you have to leave the table (for a good reason) and you are a child, say 'please may I leave the table'. An adult shouldn't need to leave the table while eating, but if they must, they should just say 'excuse me' and leave with the minimum of fuss

I’d agree on if a child is very young they should ask if they can leave the table, so below six or so, becayse they may not understand at that age or younger . Past that they are old enough to know They should stay till the end and do so, or say excuse me if they need to leave and should be taught proper manners.

Fairylightsongs · 27/01/2022 19:54

As do me and dh if we need to leave mid-meal or before someone else has finished

You and your husband say please may I leave the table if you need to leave the table?

I’m sorry that’s not actually good manners it’s just quite odd, even when it was perceived as good manners to say it, it was always just for young children who couldn’t understand if they should or not, adults say excuse me.

I’ve never heard of grown adults, nt ones anyway, who say please may I leave the table.

Momicrone · 27/01/2022 19:59

Can't her dad deal with her

WonderfulYou · 27/01/2022 20:03

YABU
I find it very controlling when adults make children ask permission for every small thing. A parents’ job is to feed their children - it shouldn’t come with conditions that they must thank them for doing it, you’re not doing them a favour you’re literally doing your job.

However most of the time myself and my child will say thanks when receiving the food but never afterwards as well unless we are a guest at someone else’s house.