LGBTQ talk in schools

[JaggedStone]

Named changed for this as could be outing.
We are very open with our children and explain life to them in ways they can understand and to ensure they are respectful of everyone and are always open and honest with us.
A LOT of parents have kicked up a fuss about the fact that teachers have spoken to the children today about LGBTQ but it is government mandated as compulsory so essentially the parents can not opt out of it unless they are planning to home school.
Some of the views seem quite hypocritical and some are saying they shouldn’t have these kind of talks yet.
AIBU to think that they are being unreasonable?

Like so many posters I’m all good with them being taught about LGB, and more generally about how families are different. Mine are 6 and 7 so we’ve had conversations about this over the years- surely it’s a natural part of conversations about marriage, families, relationships. The early conversations were more off the wall (no you can’t marry your sister, no you can’t marry your cat, no you can’t marry 6 of your friends at the same time) but they never batted an eyelid at ‘men can marry men and women can marry woman’. Why would they? We had a conversation about how single sex couples can have a baby if they want and I toned the details of ‘how’ down to what I considered age appropriate but the concept of love is not something that has any limit on when it’s talked about surely? The trickier parts I’ve found are around defining what isn’t appropriate- why a child can’t marry an adult for example - as it brings in harder topics of manipulation, maturity and sexual exploitation- which I don’t think is suitable at 6.

If I knew that T and Q were being included in the LGB teaching at school I’d exclude them though unless I could see the syllabus. I’ve seen enough examples of damaging content.

What LGBTQ+ education tends to be now is Stonewall/Mermaids propaganda, telling girls they're actually boys if they don't like pink and dolls.

Personally I think the important thing is for parents to know in advance what content will be covered so that they are able to follow up as needed with discussions at home, or are prepared or any questions that may come up, depending on their child. They also need to be able to ask teachers for further clarification if necessary also in advance.

My daughter is in reception and there are multiple same sex parents in her class so it’s very open and I think this is a good thing, I’m glad homosexuality won’t be a “revelation” to her later on in life but something which is just normal.

I’m very liberal but I find selecting gender difficult and this will be trickier to negotiate as she gets older, it seems to be a more contentious issue.

I was also concerned about the LGBTQ talk my DD had at her primary school. DD doesn't like pink or dresses or dolls and prefers more traditionally boys things. She is perfect as she is and entitled to like what she likes. She is also considering that she might be gay. We talk about all of the above and she was feeling pretty secure that she can be who she is and have our support.

When she had 'the talk' at school, she came back with the impression that she might actually be a boy. There is nothing wrong with her. It is fine for a girl to like lego and be romantically attracted to other girls.

We are in the crazy situation where sex is now seen as optional and gender essential. Sex based rights, previously enshrined in legislation are being eroded. Decades of work by feminists and gay activists and the slowly won rights are disappearing at frightening speed.

I think you can probably feel comfortable at the moment if you and your DC fit the box that they are being rigidly assigned. It is so regressive.

*Interesting how gay people existing just is, but trans people existing is an ideology.

At primary age all they will learn is that there are gay people and there are trans people, it’s not a value judgement or an ideology to tell children such things exist.*

Teaching children that some people identify as a different gender to their birth sex is teaching that trans people exist. Telling them that that person has changed from being biologically male to female or vice versa is an ideology.

My kids already know about the former - the primary school is supporting one child who has socially transitioned. Teaching the latter isn’t ok, because it’s untrue and my 8/9 year olds aren’t able yet to critically analyse that kind of message.

[quote JaggedStone]@Flutterflybutterby But mandatory lessons per the government do not require consent?[/quote]
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1019542/Relationships_Education__Relationships_and_Sex_Education__RSE__and_Health_Education.pdf

If a school has not informed the parents of their RSE policy, which parents should have been invited to help develop initially, then it’s not surprising that some parents may feel upset that this situation has happened.
Parents DO have a right to withdraw their children from some aspects of RSE, particularly for religious beliefs. They have the right for their religious beliefs to be respected in a democratic society. Calling such parents closed minded is not helpful.
OP, you’ve come on here with half a story. You don’t really know what was being taught and to whom. I suggest you contact the school yourself, ask them for the facts, and maybe suggest that they do better at informing all parents what their RSE policy is!

So how old are the children? Primary school aged is a wide range.

Sexuality doesn’t have to come into it surely?! Acknowledging that some families may have 2 mums, 2 dads… that couples don’t have to be made up of a male and a female. I wouldn’t have any issue with this-we’ve got kids in our DC activity groups with same sex parents and so they’ve already asked the questions and been given straight answers from young and it’s a non issue! Parents who want to ‘shelter’ their kids from the real world (or who are closet or not so closet homophobes) will make it an issue…

If it was the T discussion that might be a different thing…!

There seems to be a split on this thread between what teachers are telling us they reach and what parents are saying their children were taught?

@TolkiensFallow

My daughter is in reception and there are multiple same sex parents in her class so it’s very open and I think this is a good thing, I’m glad homosexuality won’t be a “revelation” to her later on in life but something which is just normal.

I’m very liberal but I find selecting gender difficult and this will be trickier to negotiate as she gets older, it seems to be a more contentious issue.

Same sex parent here. THIS!

Growing up, I knew several people who treated the word lesbian like it was not a child appropriate word, which kind of reflects more on what they associated the word with, especially as gay was fine.

There are going to be children going to school who’s home life that is. If schools are not willing to discuss same sex relationships in the correct/official terms, they’re making that child’s home life a weird taboo thing instead of somewhat normal.

@Ellowyn

I'd be home schooling if I lived there. This is awful!

The school should be teach reading, writing, math, geography, history and the rest of the basics. It is not their job to talk about who is loving who.

What about those parents teaching children that homosexuality is wicked? Or those parents teaching children that they can only love people of their own race or religion? Or that one should accept abuse in a marriage because divorce is sinful? Shall we just let them get on with it too?

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p09yjmph

This is an interesting podcast. There is some discussion of sex Ed in primary schools, but I can't remember which episode it is.

Not sure why you would care what other parents are doing with their children. Schools give parents the choice to withdraw their children, some parents will do that, some will make a noise about it others won’t bat an eyelid.

Unless you are suggesting parents (or people) aren’t allowed to have an opinion on it and should be forced in to having their children attend these classes?

What about those parents teaching children that homosexuality is wicked? Or those parents teaching children that they can only love people of their own race or religion? Or that one should accept abuse in a marriage because divorce is sinful? Shall we just let them get on with it too?

The last one isn’t a “teaching” but yep, the first two, people can teach their kids what they like.

I'm really surprised in 2022 that kids could learn for the first time in school that it's OK and normal for women to love/marry women and men to love/marry men

That's just always been part of any conversation at home and imo shouldn't be something needed to be taught "later".

I'm also a big advocate in reassuring my kids that men, women, girls and boys can wear what they like, do jobs they like, have hobbies they like. It doesn't change what they are.

This is where my concerns over Trans teachings in schools lies. I would be furious if school undid that work by telling my children that because they like dresses they are a girl and because they like football they are a boy. It's regressive.

I wonder what else you're allowed to keep your children ignorant about on religious grounds.

Evolution? That the earth isn't flat? That other religions exist and are just as valid? That the earth isn't 6,000 years old?

Perhaps I'm wrong and all these people pulling their kids out of sex education do also pull their kids out of history, geography, science etc. But I doubt it.

Evolution? That the earth isn't flat? That other religions exist and are just as valid? That the earth isn't 6,000 years old?

Are you saying you want evidence based teaching? And not the promotion of a harmful ideology to the detriment of that? Then you won't want the school pushing pink/blue braìn gender identity ideology to your children, in the way many posters on Mumsnet will tell you that their children's schools have, will you?

There seems to be a split on this thread between what teachers are telling us they reach and what parents are saying their children were taught?

And there will be. Because each school is different and can choose a different resource provider.

I mean, we are told that people like Alex Drummond goes into schools to deliver these sessions (it must be secondary school surely). Peter Tatchell is going into secondary schools to deliver sessions too. A person who has written about ‘intergenerational sex’ and said on TV the other day how porn can be of beneficial to teenagers. (And told how a 15 yr old girl told in recently in a session how it showed her ‘how to please her boyfriend’).

The issue is there is no set resource that has been carefully judged and discussed and standardised rolled out to all schools. It can be well done. It can be well intentioned but poorly done. Or it can be steeped in the political agenda of the group providing the resources. And as the students get older it becomes even more of an issue.

@doorornottodoor

No issues with the LBG bit but not happy about trans ideology being taught as fact. That trans women are women. No, they are not biological women.

Not sure anyone is teaching that trans women / trans men are biological women / men respectively.

In my kids primary school there are kids with parents in a same sex relationship. It’s normal and healthy and should be taught to the kids in ways which demolish the taboo causing their parents to get irrationally angry.

Not sure anyone is teaching that trans women / trans men are biological women / men respectively

Any school that is partnered with Stonewall or Mermaids will teach that you are the sec you feel you are.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Evolution? That the earth isn't flat? That other religions exist and are just as valid? That the earth isn't 6,000 years old?

Are you saying you want evidence based teaching? And not the promotion of a harmful ideology to the detriment of that? Then you won't want the school pushing pink/blue braìn gender identity ideology to your children, in the way many posters on Mumsnet will tell you that their children's schools have, will you?

Yes Eresh. I am hoping that is just what the poster means.

@narcdad

Too young to be talking about transgender and sexuality, I can't be more specific as I had a lack of information on the content, which was not specific in what they were covering

You don't think an 8 year old can know a man can love a man and a woman can love a woman?

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Not sure anyone is teaching that trans women / trans men are biological women / men respectively

Any school that is partnered with Stonewall or Mermaids will teach that you are the sec you feel you are.

The words Stonewall use are that trans women are "literally" women. That is a quote from the CEO when questioned.

That's the bit I think is problematic.