LGBTQ talk in schools

[JaggedStone]

Named changed for this as could be outing.
We are very open with our children and explain life to them in ways they can understand and to ensure they are respectful of everyone and are always open and honest with us.
A LOT of parents have kicked up a fuss about the fact that teachers have spoken to the children today about LGBTQ but it is government mandated as compulsory so essentially the parents can not opt out of it unless they are planning to home school.
Some of the views seem quite hypocritical and some are saying they shouldn’t have these kind of talks yet.
AIBU to think that they are being unreasonable?

I wonder what else you're allowed to keep your children ignorant about on religious grounds.

As they are your children, you can teach them whatever you want. As you should.

This is where my concerns over Trans teachings in schools lies. I would be furious if school undid that work by telling my children that because they like dresses they are a girl and because they like football they are a boy. It's regressive.

In other words, the parents the OP is talking about are wrong to be angry about their children being taught something that is against what they believe but it’s ok for you to be angry about your children being taught something against your belief?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Evolution? That the earth isn't flat? That other religions exist and are just as valid? That the earth isn't 6,000 years old?

Are you saying you want evidence based teaching? And not the promotion of a harmful ideology to the detriment of that? Then you won't want the school pushing pink/blue braìn gender identity ideology to your children, in the way many posters on Mumsnet will tell you that their children's schools have, will you?

Well yes, I would agree with all of that, but I was mostly responding to posters who don't want their children taught that same sex relationships exist on religious grounds.

boredzelda

In other words, the parents the OP is talking about are wrong to be angry about their children being taught something that is against what they believe but it’s ok for you to be angry about your children being taught something against your belief?

Did you actually read the quote you wrote this in reply to?

Or do you think kids should be taught regressive stereotypes around gender identity?

@EeeICouldRipATissue

I’m totally against any teaching of the T part though Why shouldn't they learn that trans people exist?

Go on then, EeI - how would you define what a trans person is in simple, truthful terms to a primary child who had no concept of gender?

Something about which body parts they feel they really have even if they don't?

Something about how you are a different sex if you like certain things or have a certain personality?

I know you won't answer because as much as you like to go on about how important gender is, you've never been able to say what it actually is, beyond "a feeling" that you imagine you'd feel if magic was real and you changed your body to the opposite sex.

DD (Reception) was told that women could marry women (I assume it came up in discussion/a story, not a formal lesson) and some mothers objected. I said I was happy with her being told anything that was factually true.

But she gets told by friends that she's a boy because she wears trousers or likes dinosaurs - if there is any hint of the school reinforcing that I will be having words.

Interesting topic. My 5yr DS came home from school yesterday after having a supply called Mx Page as a teacher.

He queried this but to be honest i was completey stumped how to explain non binary to a 5 year old.

Before any shouts me down he had an amazing gay reception teacher who wears elements of (traditional) women's clothing, high heeled boots, jackets, skirts occasionally. Manicured false nails etc. My DS was and is completely non plussed by this as it should be.

I've always wondered how to pronounce Mx

Women loving women - all fine and true.

Some children are born in the wrong body and children can change sex - fuck no. I would die on that hill.

Before any shouts me down he had an amazing gay reception teacher who wears elements of (traditional) women's clothing, high heeled boots, jackets, skirts occasionally. Manicured false nails etc. My DS was and is completely non plussed by this as it should be.

Who and why would anyone shout you down?

Here's how a non stonewall lesson on trans people existing would comply with the DfE.

Now. Who remembers the difference between girls and boys we learned last year?

Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina and vulva..

Well remembered! Now. Who remembers are previous work around stereotypes?

Stereotypes are harmful ideas that boys and girls only wear certain colours and do certain hobbies and jobs. Stereotypes shouldn't define us. Boys can cry and like glitter. Girls can like rock climbing.

Well remembered.

So today we are learning trans people exist.

What's a trans person? Is it like trams? I want to be a traindriver.

No Rose. A trans person is a man that thinks he would like to be a women or a woman who would like to be a man. They use stereotypes to signal this to the world.

They use stereotypes? But I thought we weren't meant to assume stereotypes like short hair or dresses or glitter meant anything other than that's a person's likes? Remember how we all did the glitter lesson. You said boys could love glitter and we all agreed.

Yes I did say that. You aren't meant to use stereotypes. Apart from with trans people. They'd like you to ignore what you know about girls and boys and use stereotypes.

Ok. I'm confused.

Me too Billy. Me too.

Peter Tatchell is going into secondary schools to deliver sessions too

That guy who talked about 9 year olds getting “great pleasure” from sex with adults. Going into schools??
Talk about “in plain sight”.

I'd rather they be taught about that than an imaginary man in the sky.

It is indeed nolongersurprised.

Like Alex Drummond telling students they are a lesbian and discussing sexual orientation and gender identity in schools too. And they tell everyone ‘they are broadening the bandwidth for women’ with their giggly ‘I go from fixing the car to getting ready to go out for a girl’s night out’. Fuck off Alex. Many of us have already been that and done it. Fixing cars doesn’t require a dick. Alex is not broadening the bandwidth of women, just reinforcing the misogynistic idea of what a woman is to suit their bepenised self.

You can’t teach kids about LGB relationships AND trans ideology. It’s oxymoronic, because trans ideology is inherently homophobic.

“Some women love exclusively women. These women are called lesbians.”

Vs

“Some women love exclusively women and that includes males who say they’re women. These males or females are called lesbians.”

Yeah, really progressive.

@SpilltheTea

I'd rather they be taught about that than an imaginary man in the sky.

You’d rather be taught that ‘intergenerational sex’ is fine that learn about different religions?

Or was that just poor timing?

Well yes, I would agree with all of that, but I was mostly responding to posters who don't want their children taught that same sex relationships exist on religious grounds.

Sorry, I misunderstood.

My DD pre-empted school on this one - we live next door to school and she spent the first few weeks dragging different children over to prove she did really have two mummies, while the older ones learnedly told the little ones men can marry men, too.

I find the contrived concern about 'trans ideology' on this thread a bit daft TBH.

What's contrived about it?

“Some women love exclusively women and that includes males who say they’re women. These males or females are called lesbians.”

The Q (Queer) part is problematic too. Not only was queer an insult hurled at gay men and lesbians, its now used to make straight people sound more interesting.

You could have an lgbt club at school full of heterosexual couples. It dilutes the support for everyone else.

No objection to children learning about LGB. I think the TQ bit is too much for primary aged DC to understand.

This is the impact of the homophobia of the 90s where teachers would avoid any mention on same sex relationships for fear of disciplinary action. There are many who repeat this homophobia believing to refer to people being gay is taboo. It's pathetic. They probably can't say penis or fart either.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

What's contrived about it?

Mostly straight women pretending to be oh-so terribly concerned about lesbians is always going to feel contrived. I have been on MN for donkeys' years and no one is ever particularly worried about lesbophobia (indeed, plenty of posters are quite happy to be casually lesbophobic) ... until the trans issue comes up. Then you get posters falling over themselves to think of the poor ickle lesbians forced to have sex with trans women.

I am aware there is a lunatic fringe of transwomen who think it's awful not all lesbians want to sleep with them. You will always get absolute twats in any group. But IME, the vast majority of transwomen do not give one tiny shit about who doesn't want to sleep with them - they're just interested in people who do. And the vast majority of lesbians also don't give a tiny flying fuck. If you don't like sleeping with someone with a penis, you don't.

What's homophobic is telling girls that leabians can have a penis.

Its the new version of " you haven't found the right bloke yet" except this time the male is apparently a woman.

That's the real homphobia. Reframing same sex attraction as same gender attraction and teaching children 2 males can be in a lesbian relationship

I have been on MN for donkeys' years and no one is ever particularly worried about lesbophobia

Oh that's weird, you must never have come across my posts.