LGBTQ talk in schools

[JaggedStone]

Named changed for this as could be outing.
We are very open with our children and explain life to them in ways they can understand and to ensure they are respectful of everyone and are always open and honest with us.
A LOT of parents have kicked up a fuss about the fact that teachers have spoken to the children today about LGBTQ but it is government mandated as compulsory so essentially the parents can not opt out of it unless they are planning to home school.
Some of the views seem quite hypocritical and some are saying they shouldn’t have these kind of talks yet.
AIBU to think that they are being unreasonable?

People maybe confusing LGB with LGBT, but unfortunately the T is now included so parents cannot object to one part.

Some people aren't saying anything about the T bit though.
They've come out and said they don't want their kids learning about gay relationships as it's too young to know about them.
If a child has two mums or two dads, why is it not OK to know about them but it is if they have a mum and a dad?

It seems people do have a problem with the LGB bit being taught too though.

Some do, most don’t. I have a relative who is a head teacher and quite a few relatives and friends who are teachers. primary and secondary. The vast majority of parents who are concerned and contact their schools about these lessons are only concerned about the T part, not the LGB part. All of them share the parents concerns, most have kids themselves, but dare not say. It’s frightening.

If parents are homophobic, they unfortunately probably always will be. We can only hope that their kids are not as they will be influenced by other things other than their parents.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Some people aren't saying anything about the T bit though. They've come out and said they don't want their kids learning about gay relationships as it's too young to know about them. If a child has two mums or two dads, why is it not OK to know about them but it is if they have a mum and a dad?

One poster, as far as I can tell. That no one on this thread has agreed with.

I haven't met any homophobic parents and my DCs are in secondary. I think most people understand that homosexuality is really the same as heterosexuality, and bisexuality is attraction to both sexes. The issue really is with confusing ideology.

I haven't met any homophobic parents and my DCs are in secondary.
I sadly know a few.

Perhaps those parents objected because they thought their children would be taught Trans ideology? Trans ideology is inherently homophobic. They believe a person with a penis and testicles is a woman purely because that person says so, and if a lesbian isn't attracted to a trans woman, then she is a bigot.

A lesbian is no longer allowed to be exclusively attracted to biological women. Lesbians have been attacked, insulted and threatened by trans activists who say they should want their "lady cock".

Trans ideology is deeply, and inherently, homophobic, not just misogynistic. It doesn't belong with LGB teaching.

Personally I would fully support the talk and have no problems with my children going there, as long as I had a guarantee , an ironclad guarantee that transgender ideology wouldn't be in the talk. I don't want my children subjected to misogynist and homophobic brainwashing.

@Jellycatspyjamas

It depends on content, I have no issue with my kids learning about same sex relationships, a number of our family friends are in sane sex relationships so it’s really not news to them. I’d be much more concerned about what they’re covering in terms of trans ideology.

Interesting how gay people existing just is, but trans people existing is an ideology.

At primary age all they will learn is that there are gay people and there are trans people, it’s not a value judgement or an ideology to tell children such things exist.

@TheOriginalEmu You're being disingenuous. It's the telling us that a man is a woman and if a lesbian doesn't want to have sex with a person with a penis and testicles, then they are 'transphobic' that is the ideological part. Which basically makes the practice of being a lesbian redundant, and creates an atmosphere of homophobia.
It is the acceptance of male bodied persons in women's safe spaces, that is the ideological part.
It is the teaching of children that they can change sex if they want - when it's scientifically and practically impossible, that is the ideological part. It's teaching lies and falsehoods, teaching women they have no agency and no right to safe spaces. It's dangerous, misogynistic, femphobic and homophobic. Lesbians need to be protected from being told they MUST want to be attracted and sleep with a person with a penis. Children should not be taught such damaging homophobia.

At primary age all they will learn is that there are gay people and there are trans people, it’s not a value judgement or an ideology to tell children such things exist.

There is a very big difference to saying ‘trans people exist’ and explaining what is meant by trans in the first place.

And how do you explain gender to children without using stereotypes? We can’t even get a clear definition or description for it as adults.

We have too many examples of either a outside resource being used who pushes their own agenda of early education meaning that the children leave the session with confusion as to whether they are boys or girls because the explanation revolves around stereotypes.

It may also be that well-meaning teachers or teachers given resources and told they have to use those resources.

We have poster’s whose child was told an activity their child loved was used as an example of a stereotype that a trans person used to know what their gender was. One child came home from school thinking they were trans because of the activities used as examples.

That child also now has lost the enjoyment of their activity because of something a teacher told them last year in one of these classes.

Not only that but if a child is then told the Stonewall definition of lesbian and gay, which includes gender, is this appropriate? I know a large number of lesbians who would not be happy with that definition.

There have also been resources, well intentioned perhaps, that tell children that ‘all love is good’ and mixes in age etc. these very open messages are the stuff of PIE and the newly branded minor attracted people.

There is a great many opportunities for these sessions to give children mixed and confusing messages at the moment. There are a lot of information providers and it is up to the school as to what is used.

That is why it is vital that parents do have the right to see what is being taught.

It is a simple superficial, throw away, statement to say ‘trans people exist’. In practice, this topic is very poorly taught in far too many instances.

Whereas sexual orientation based on same SEX attraction can be clearly defined and in many instances, easily explained with little confusion to the child.

@narcdad’s dd is not from a home with a same sex relationship though, is she. She also has ASD. Children come from different backgrounds meaning they have to learn about specifics that others might not.

I’ve done the same as Pp in that situation as they know their dd best. For many children with ASD, many PSHE topics go over the top of their heads and the need a 1:1 approach instead of a general class approach.

Check out Olly Pike’s twitter feed. I would hit the roof if my children were being taught trans ideology and gender stereotypes from his resources. “Gender assigned at birth”wtf
twitter.com/ollypike?s=21

@HomeIsDogs

Why shouldn't they learn that trans people exist?

Because it’s an ideology. A man ‘feels’ like a woman.... what does that mean? He’s a man who may not like his body, feels wrong or whatever...doesn’t make him a woman. And telling kids it’s a possibility, puberty blockers, hormones, cutting off and adding body parts should never be the answer. It’s harmful. People need support for their mental health if they have issues with their body or identity. The trans movement is also homophobic and especially damaging to women’s rights.

This is why I have taught my child you cannot change sex. The LGB I'm fine with him knowing and understanding but I will not allow his school to teach him that people can magically change from a boy to a girl or vice versa

Primary teacher here (Scotland).

We teacher all through primary that families all look different. We say you might have a mummy and a daddy, just a mummy, just a daddy, two mummies, two daddies, maybe you live with an auntie or a grandparent, etc.

We also teach the anatomical names of all the body parts.

We try and ensure that children see they can be whoever they want to be, play with anything, do anything or accomplish anything regardless of gender. Changing gender is not something we bring up, although pupils sometimes do bring it up.

We teach consent and keeping our bodies safe. We teach relationships but with the focus on things like friendship, peer pressure, bullying and respecting others. We talk a lot about internet safety.

Finally, in upper primary, we teach the changes that happen during puberty, menstruation and the biology behind how a baby is made, grown, born and taken care of.

We don’t indoctrinate children into anything, just give them facts and an opportunity to discuss them and ask questions.

What utter nonsense of the parents! I respect their religious views however LBGT is part of everyday life. As long as the conversation was age appropriate and didn’t cover much more than lesbian is a woman who loves a woman and gay is a man who loves a man etc then it’s completely fine.

There are gay crabs on hey duggee for gods sake, so their kids have probably already figured most of it out without the lesson anyway.

Teaching kids about all sorts of different families is absolutely right and normal (and should include how some kids live with grandparents etc as well as how some kids have two parents)

The DfE is very clear, however, that schools must not say anything that promotes gender stereotypes. So they shouldn't be putting the idea into kids' heads that boys who like pink, or girls who like football, might be trans.

My kid is in reception and we’ve had this chat as there are 2 same sex families in his class, so he often asks why X has 2 daddies.

I'd find out the content of the lesson first.

My kids have known for years that men can love men and women can love women. That every adult is free to marry the adult they love.

I have a just turned 11 year old , who was taught aged ten that you can have surgery to change sex. Now that I object to. Its dangerous untrue and gaslighting the kids.

@HomeIsDogs

Why shouldn't they learn that trans people exist?

Because it’s an ideology. A man ‘feels’ like a woman.... what does that mean? He’s a man who may not like his body, feels wrong or whatever...doesn’t make him a woman. And telling kids it’s a possibility, puberty blockers, hormones, cutting off and adding body parts should never be the answer. It’s harmful. People need support for their mental health if they have issues with their body or identity. The trans movement is also homophobic and especially damaging to women’s rights.

This encapsulates it perfectly @HomeIsDogs

[quote narcdad]@Mulhollandmagoo my dd has ASD and they school would not advise me on what was being covered, I felt it would be too confusing for her, I also feel that at 8 she was too young. I let her have the day off instead.

I will probably do the same when it comes to my other daughter having this talk, unless the school can provide more details of content. [/quote]
@narcdad
Teacher here, if I was contacted by a parent regarding something like this I would be prepared to detail all content covered. If you was still unhappy the PHSE lead would cover in more detail. Did you contact the teacher and ask what would be covered?

I will.add also that my dd as a result needed reassuring her body was OK as it was. And also rather worried she'd have to share the girls toilets with boys.

There are consequences to the information being told to kids by adults they trust. In telling my dd the truth about things she's had to lose trust in her teachers whi taught it as fact.

Being alone aged from either their parents or they teachers as a result doesn't benefit the kids

Being alienated.

In the 21st century I'm surprised parents are worried about being taught this in school.

Surely the children see this day in and day out?

It's hardly unusual for same sex couples to be married as have children? Or be at the school gates?

I'm always dubious about gender identification and transgender being taught in schools because it's so c9molex and I don't think you can teach that deeply. But I don't disagree about closing down discussion. It's our responsibility to discuss it further with our children should it need to be.

*Interesting how gay people existing just is, but trans people existing is an ideology.

At primary age all they will learn is that there are gay people and there are trans people, it’s not a value judgement or an ideology to tell children such things exist.*

I don't agree with this at all. You can't teach 'some people believe their gender is not the same as their sex' without implicitly defining 'gender' and 'sex' in ideological terms. Once you go into identity grounds, you cannot escape ideology.

I'm always dubious about gender identification and transgender being taught in schools because it's so c9molex and I don't think you can teach that deeply. But I don't disagree about closing down discussion. It's our responsibility to discuss it further with our children should it need to be.

Well it should be discussed but aggressive TRAs have shut down discussion which is why people are worried. Uncritically teaching the idea that everyone has a gender identity, that it can't be defined and refusing to discuss the damage this is doing to large swathes of society is problematic - and is also invariably where this kind of 'teaching' is starting. It's brainwashing not teaching and that's what people object to (well most people).