LGBTQ talk in schools

[JaggedStone]

Named changed for this as could be outing.
We are very open with our children and explain life to them in ways they can understand and to ensure they are respectful of everyone and are always open and honest with us.
A LOT of parents have kicked up a fuss about the fact that teachers have spoken to the children today about LGBTQ but it is government mandated as compulsory so essentially the parents can not opt out of it unless they are planning to home school.
Some of the views seem quite hypocritical and some are saying they shouldn’t have these kind of talks yet.
AIBU to think that they are being unreasonable?

Realised I missed a group off my last sentence.

I also want to add that the different structures also include parents who aren’t married and those who don’t live together. And blended families of any type.

There is literally ZERO reason why 5 year olds needs to learn about relationships.

Except they see it in Disney films? Lady and the Tramp... Cinderella... Tarzan... Beauty and the Beast... Lion King !? They know relationships exist! They surely know mummy and daddy (of whoever) love each other? They see you together?

my parents would cover my eyes if I saw ANY form of sexual contact between 2 people

Your mother sounds unhinged tbh. My grandfather would often go over and give my grandmother a kiss on the cheek and a hug before going to bed. They wore their wedding rings. I saw their wedding photos in the house... How would I be unaware they are a couple? They would hold hands at times.

I'm sorry but what you're saying is crazy.

I would imagine there’s a huge amount to unpack in your psyche, @Pinkrose1111.

Your upbringing probably has a lot to do with falling accidentally pregnant at a young age with your first boyfriend. That’s not exactly an optimal scenario however you dress it up.

Maybe think about doing things a little differently with your DD and teaching her about sex, relationships and contraception?

@Marmarind

There is literally ZERO reason why 5 year olds needs to learn about relationships.

Except they see it in Disney films? Lady and the Tramp... Cinderella... Tarzan... Beauty and the Beast... Lion King !? They know relationships exist! They surely know mummy and daddy (of whoever) love each other? They see you together?

Even worse, some parents take their children to weddings, the horror!

Even worse, some parents take their children to weddings, the horror!

I didn't even think about that because I never went to one as a kid (not for any moral reason, just didn't happen, weren't really any weddings to go to)

@GaiusHelenMohiam

In my experience men can’t read sex as accurately but women definitely can.

Also women can pass for men far easier then the reverse, as well, so historically women joining the army/navy/becoming doctors etc by pretending to be men may well have passed under the radar. But a man presenting as a woman is clockable 99% of the time.

I might be fooled by a carefully posed and filtered photo but once they move or talk, or it’s in person, it’s blindingly obvious.

This.

And when we are washing our hands in the ladies and a TW is next to us doing the same, our lack of acknowledgement or protest is likely just wanting to avoid a potential conflict. It's not because a) we aren't aware they are different or b) we are happy with this.

but people, in general, absolutely do get sex wrong all the time.

////

You what?

@Pinkrose1111 Take Texas in America for example. Bible Belt, no sex ed in schools. What's the natural result of that? Read on to find out....

*Texas Has One of the Highest Teen Birth Rates in the Nation
The teen birth rate signifies the number of teens who give birth each year. According to the CDC, Texas has a teen birth rate of 25.3. In other words, for every 1,000 girls aged 15-19 in Texas, 25.3 will give birth. This places Texas at number seven among the top 10 states with the highest teen birth rates.

On top of this, Texas ranked number one for repeat births among teens in 2016. This means that among women aged 15-19 giving birth, more than 19% already have at least one child.

Texas Teens Are More Sexually Active Than Other Teens
The high texas teen pregnancy rate is due to the fact that teens in Texas tend to be more sexually active on average than teens in many other states.

The 2019 Youth Risk Behavior Survey found that 42.7% of Texas teens had engaged in sexual intercourse at least once. In addition to this, 29.3% of teens in Texas reported being currently sexually active. While many teens are sexually active, not many utilize proper birth control. Over 50% of teens that are sexually active report not using a condom the last time they had sex.

The high levels of sexual activity among young people and the lack of proper birth control plays a role in the number of unexpected pregnancies in the state.

Lack of Proper Education Leads to High Texas Teen Pregnancy Rates
Another contributor to teen pregnancy in Texas is the lack of knowledge that teens have around sexual intercourse and the possible consequences. In Texas, more than 50% of high schools teach abstinence-only sex education. That means that they tell you that the best way to avoid pregnancy is not to have sex.

Another 25% of schools don’t teach sex education at all. According to a recent study, approximately 75% of teen pregnancies are unintended.*

From www.texasadoptioncenter.org/blog/texas-teen-pregnancy-rate-statistics/#:~:text=Texas%20Has%20One%20of%20the%20Highest%20Teen%20Birth%20Rates%20in%20the%20Nation&text=According%20to%20the%20CDC%2C%20Texas,the%20highest%20teen%20birth%20rates.

I suppose I wonder if it’s necessary really early on. Yes, in year 6 you do sex Ed and part of that there are different kind of relationships. Normalise it for sure. Going on to 5 years olds is the opposite of normalising jt I think?

‘There is literally ZERO reason why 5 year olds needs to learn about relationships.’

That is one of the maddest things I have ever heard on MN, ever. As humans our entire EXISTENCE is based around relationships, those of our family, friends and people around us.
Unless you’re planning on taking your kids to grow up in isolation on a desert island somewhere.

[quote Pinkrose1111]@EeeICouldRipATissue Kissing is sexual contact and you're seriously saying we should expose 5 year olds to that?? Every 5 year old I know thinks that's yucky? Why are we trying to force this on kids so young now?? Noone can still explain to me WHY 5 year olds need to know about relationships??[/quote]
There are many 5 year olds and younger who don't see this at home. Genuine love and affection. Instead they see fear, intimidation, violence and worse. Every day. Of their lives. And that's before they become the target of such "normality". It's important these children know what a healthy and loving relationship looks like.

Unless it's dry humping, which let's face it not many of us want to see, kissing is normal and way to indicate you love and respect someone. It's healthy.

I can’t begin to imagine what some people on here had to endure as children, going from some of the responses.
I work with a lot of privately educated, boarding types and if you want to know the harm that can come to children who aren’t given proper PHSE,
Are taught to stifle emotions, are made ashamed of sex, have had little or no education around sex, sexuality and healthy relationships Or brought up outside of family relationships, you only have to start there.
For those panicking about what 5 year old are taught in school, you should probably start with the KS1 curriculum to see how innocuous PHSE is at that age…

There are many 5 year olds and younger who don't see this at home. Genuine love and affection. Instead they see fear, intimidation, violence and worse. Every day. Of their lives. And that's before they become the target of such "normality". It's important these children know what a healthy and loving relationship looks like.

This is such an important point. What is talked about with 5 year olds is simple information that is age appropriate, there's nothing sexualised about the content. It really is just discussing that there are different types of families, which many of them will already be aware of because they experience it themselves, and that these different set ups are normal.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

but people, in general, absolutely do get sex wrong all the time.

////

You what?

Yes, where is the evidence for this? I've been served in a shop by two men trying to present as women in the last two weeks. I knew perfectly well they were men. I don't care what they wear and outside of female only spaces there is really no problem with them doing things which 50 years ago were thought of as 'just for women'. That doesn't mean I got their sex wrong though.

I realise the thread has meandered somewhat but in response to the OP, I would (and will) take my child out of any class that tries to teach him that people can change sex. Because that is nonsense, and like a PP, he has conditions that mean he will see the world in rigid terms, so the fact he liked pink and My Little Pony age 5 could, by their ridiculous gender stereotypes, mean he would be directed onto a road to hormones and surgery that would be horrific and totally unnecessary.

In terms of sex-ed, not a problem from my perspective, he has known the basics for a while because I told him in age-appropriate detail whenever he asked, and we read “mummy laid an egg” together once (he never asked again).

He was madly in (mutual) love with his best male friend at school for a year and a half, I told him that of course they could get married if they still wanted to when they were older and he also knows mummies can marry mummies if they love each other. No bother there at all - though I am gutted it didn’t last, the other boy wanted a new best friend, sadly.

BUT - If my son is gay, I don’t want anyone telling him in his formative years, when he might himself be struggling with it, that he is born in the wrong body and he can “trans away the gay” with hormones and surgery. I don’t want elderly male drag queens reading to him in libraries (or gorillas with rainbow costumes and dildoes) trying to “break down barriers” (why and for what gain? I am still stunned that any of this happened). I don’t want him to be taught it is ok to use spaces reserved for girls and women just because he is getting a hard time in the boys/mens spaces. Let’s use this huge momentum in supposed support for “trans” children to make sure boys accept gay/female presenting boys in their own spaces, without violence, and wash away those stereotypes. Oh, and a massive push to stop violence against women wouldn’t go amiss.

[quote Migrainesbythedozen]**@TheOriginalEmu* You're being disingenuous. It's the telling us that a man is a woman and if a lesbian doesn't want to have sex with a person with a penis and testicles, then they are 'transphobic' that is the ideological part. Which basically makes the practice of being a lesbian* redundant, and creates an atmosphere of homophobia.
It is the acceptance of male bodied persons in women's safe spaces, that is the ideological part.
It is the teaching of children that they can change sex if they want - when it's scientifically and practically impossible, that is the ideological part. It's teaching lies and falsehoods, teaching women they have no agency and no right to safe spaces. It's dangerous, misogynistic, femphobic and homophobic. Lesbians need to be protected from being told they MUST want to be attracted and sleep with a person with a penis. Children should not be taught such damaging homophobia.[/quote]
I don’t deny there are some transpeople who say that a lesbian who doesn’t want a person with a penis is wrong. That doesn’t make it the opinion of all or even most trans people. A few extremists don’t decide the agenda for everyone of that community.

I don’t deny there are some transpeople who say that a lesbian who doesn’t want a person with a penis is wrong. That doesn’t make it the opinion of all or even most trans people. A few extremists don’t decide the agenda for everyone of that community.

But this is pretty much the official position of Stonewall. Its CEO, Nancy Kelley said:

“If you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it’s worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions.”

This was in the context of being asked about some lesbians (the real kind) coming under pressure from some transwomen.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-57853385

So the CEO of Stonewall thinks lesbians might want to think about how their same sex attraction might be influenced by “societal prejudices”, by which she means transphobia.

So this is the position of Stonewall, the most influential LGBT lobby group in the country, who are desperate to have a say in how children are educated on these issues. This extremist view IS deciding the agenda for everyone of that community.

If this is not the view of all or even most trans people, then those people need to denounce Stonewall and its failure to emphatically defend same sex attraction and sexual orientation and make sure they can’t teach their nonsense to kids.

If this is not the view of all or even most trans people, then those people need to denounce Stonewall and its failure to emphatically defend same sex attraction and sexual orientation and make sure they can’t teach their nonsense to kids

This is something I have been saying for a long time now.

If the community doesn’t generally believe that transitioned males should be able to describe themselves as lesbians. And doesn’t support those transitioned males abusing lesbians who reject them or pressure lesbians to have sex with them. And the community know there are males doing this. Why isn’t Stonewall doing anything or saying anything about it?

They are not. And Kelley has made statements like the one above and still, no push back. Nothing.

So, in my opinion, if a community is not pushing back, not writing letters to stonewall saying ‘stop! you are not representing me when you say this’. If people are not stopping their donations to stonewall and saying ‘you no longer support me, I am finding another group that does’. In my opinion, those who continue to defend and support stonewall are complicit in the abuse lesbians receive.

I’d like to know if any LGB supporter of stonewall has voiced their dissatisfaction with stonewall’s change of definition of the terms lesbian and gay, or has voiced their horrific that stonewall has never stood up, even on days meant to support Lesbians, and said to those abusive transitioned males in the community and told them that it is totally unacceptable. And offered public support to those lesbians who have reported it has happened to them.

It is a classic trans activist tactic that I see deployed often. The denial that it is happening, denial that stonewall’s change of definition and language has had anything to do with it. And usually accompanied by a distractive attacking statement about any person questioning why stonewall has allowed this situation to happen.

I genuinely would like to know what lesbians who think that even one lesbian being subject to abuse or coerced sex by a transitioned male is worth fighting for are proactively doing to make sure this doesn’t ever happen again.

Across threads I ask this question and I get no answer. Usually I get told it doesn’t happen. Or like the saying goes - it doesn’t happen, if it did it was only once. If it happened more than once, it is not an issue. And so on, until you get to the last line, maybe she deserved it.