Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Would u let your 1 year old travel abroad without you?

182 replies

Roserm · 26/01/2022 22:16

Hi

Really need some advice.

My abusive ex partner has requested to have our 1 year old for 2 weeks in the summer holidays and all of the other school holidays this year.

We currently have a court order in place since July 2021. This states he is to have contact every fortnight for 3 nights and is not to remove her from the country without my consent.

I’ve suggested he have her for 1 week at most at any one time to begin with as she currently only sees him for 3 nights every fortnight. I think a gradual increase is important rather than going from 3 nights to 2 weeks. That’s a long time for a baby who won’t really understand what’s going on. Is this unreasonable?

I also suggested we half the holidays. He thinks this is unfair as his contact already falls in the holiday period and this shouldn’t be included. He feels he should have the holidays on top of this.

He has also stated that he is planning a family vacation to take our child out of the country for 2 weeks which I am not in agreement with. He stated that unless there’s a medical reason he will be taking her.

My reasons for not being in agreement with this just yet is that in order for us to make this arrangement between ourselves work, we need good communication and trust and respect. And we don’t have this just yet.

There would also be no legal enforcement put in place if we arrange this between ourselves and this scares me because even with a court order he just does what he wants

Also considering our child’s age, if she is to go abroad with him, I don’t feel assured he would give me correct contact details or information about where she’s going and flight details etc which I think are very reasonable requests. I think any parent would appreciate this information and don’t see any reason why the other parent wouldn’t share it with them.

He has consistently been hours late for handovers which I think is really disrespectful towards me and my time. He has constantly requested to change the order every week last minute to suit him. I have tried to accommodated where best I can and have done more than I needed to already.

He recently had issues with providing me details of where our child is staying during contact with him without any good reason and then gave me false information even though the court order states he is to inform me where she is staying before contact. I couldn’t understand this and thought it was really unnecessary to do that and felt we went backwards in progress.

He also stated a couple times that he may not be able to return our child to my care when agreed and tried to negotiate keeping her which lead me having to seek legal advice and threaten him with legal action in which he then returned her.

I don’t want to feel intimidated into letting her go abroad when I feel this way or giving in to the holidays and not getting to spend any of that time with her and our family but I feel like he is trying to achieve that.

What do I do? I need some advice.

I don’t want to communicate with him anymore about it because I feel like it’s getting no where.

Do I stop replying to his emails and seek legal advice again?

Or am I being unreasonable, if so how?

Thanks I’m advanced.

OP posts:
trickytimes · 27/01/2022 07:28

This is a hard no. Hide her passport. Go see a solicitor and stop all contact. Get advice. He’s a risk. The court order says no.

MondayYogurt · 27/01/2022 07:29

He's still abusing and controlling you. It's all deliberate behaviour.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 27/01/2022 07:33

Get legal advice because you have a genuine and legitimate fear of abduction.

There is no way in hell I would let him take your DD abroad. He is not to be trusted.

DH is North African and has taken our DC on holiday to his family for years so it’s not that I think fathers can’t take their DC abroad: I think that your ex should not take your DD abroad.

Please take advice as he might get a Nigerian passport for her.

RedRobin100 · 27/01/2022 07:34

Hard no OP

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 27/01/2022 07:38

I’ve just checked and Nigeria is not a signatory to the Hague Convention on Child Abduction

So that’s an even bigger red flag.

ChoiceMummy · 27/01/2022 07:46

My advice:
Get a flag on your child's passport. If they don't have a passport, get one, so he can't, and then put a flag on it.
Call border control and do the same.
I would also state that during school holidays, normal contact is suspended and holiday contact supercedes this. (I presume that baby goes to nursery or he works term time?)
I would highlight all failings, including threats, late returns, not informing re location etc.
Then, email, formally, that you will only be following the court order to the letter. That if he has issues with this, he can return to court. I would then not permit ANY deviation from the order. If he's late, give 15 minutes grace then go out with the child to make a point. Even if it's just to the supermarket.
If you have any other failures to return, call the police and get them to enforce the order.

EileenGC · 27/01/2022 08:04

Like others have said, he could very easily get her a Nigerian passport - legally or illegally - so it’s a good idea to hide her UK one, but an even better idea is to NEVER agree to her being taken abroad. Doesn’t matter to which country, doesn’t matter what time of the year, doesn’t matter her age.

I’m Spanish but my parents come from another country in Europe, which wasn’t a member of the EU when I was born.

I have two birth certificates, one from each country. The non-EU one could be issued without both parents being present. So if one of my parents had applied for it behind the other’s back, they would have never found out. They didn’t need my Spanish birth cert to do anything in the other country.

Him not having access to a UK passport or birth cert doesn’t mean he can’t get her Nigerian documents. The name and/or DOB could be slightly altered so that the airports don’t flag them up. So the only solution here is to NEVER let him take her.

Youngstreet · 27/01/2022 08:18

You’ve been too reasonable op.
I would decide what you want and only accommodate your ex legally.
A man that disrespects a child’s mother is not a good father.
Your dc welfare should be paramount to him.
If he wants to separate your dc from you for 2 weeks then he is not putting your dc first.

merrymelodies · 27/01/2022 08:19

No, never, not happening. Wow.

liveforsummer · 27/01/2022 08:26

I have two birth certificates, one from each country. The non-EU one could be issued without both parents being present. So if one of my parents had applied for it behind the other’s back, they would have never found out. They didn’t need my Spanish birth cert to do anything in the other country.

Birth certificates are public records in the uk. Anyone can apply for anyone's if they have the right details. I could order yours and you'd never know

Lolamento · 27/01/2022 08:26

There is not way I would do that. I hope the law is with you on this.

Lolamento · 27/01/2022 08:29

@liveforsummer

I have two birth certificates, one from each country. The non-EU one could be issued without both parents being present. So if one of my parents had applied for it behind the other’s back, they would have never found out. They didn’t need my Spanish birth cert to do anything in the other country.

Birth certificates are public records in the uk. Anyone can apply for anyone's if they have the right details. I could order yours and you'd never know

Omg never knew this. With so much crime going on they should change the law.
DrinkFeckArseBrick · 27/01/2022 08:30

I was going to say, rather than say no, give him something to work towards ie if you stick to agreed contact times, increase contact to x, provide details of where she is staying such as hotel bookings and flight receipts from now on then you can take her.

Then I got to the bit about him having family abroad and having form for not wanting to return her and it ran alarm bells. I would not give permission to take her out the country and I would seek legal advice on how to prevent this

Soontobe60 · 27/01/2022 08:34

I agree with others. Stick to the court order. Do not waver from it. And certainly do not allow her to be taken abroad!

FrancescaContini · 27/01/2022 08:37

Absolutely no way would I allow this, ever, in answer to the OP.

Soontobe60 · 27/01/2022 08:37

Also, it may be a good idea to read up on FGM. Nigeria is considered to be one the highest incidences of FGM in the world - around 1/4 of all cases of FGM take place there. It’s a possibility that he wants to take her there for this precise reason.

Suzanne999 · 27/01/2022 08:40

Take Legal advice only. Do not negotiate with him.
He is manipulating you, possibly to see how far he can go.
Make sure you tell the solicitor that he has stated he may not return yoyr child to you.
Your solicitor can go back to court to change the contact order in light of his behaviour.
List EVERYTHING he has said , EVERY time he has been late, changed arrangements. Don’t worry how bad it sounds. You are not a doormat and need to stand up for your rights and your daughter’s.
Are his parents in Nigeria? He may well take your dc there and leave her.
All his behaviour leans to him manipulating and punishing you—- and depriving you of your child is the ultimate punishment.

Soontobe60 · 27/01/2022 08:44

It would seem he cannot obtain a Nigerian passport for her without your knowledge. He’d need her original birth certificate plus your passport details and a letter of permission off you.
www.nigeriahc.org.uk/pdf/epptfirstissueforminor.pdf

It also looks like he’d struggle to get a British passport without your consent.
www.gov.uk/get-a-child-passport/first-child-passport

Horseradish01 · 27/01/2022 08:56

@Roserm

Thank you for this. I can’t believe how everyone is saying the same thing and it’s not just me worrying. I have been very reasonable and more than accommodating with him. I have given him the extra day here and there when he asked for them, agreed to changed location, dates and times of handovers on numerous different occasions to accommodate his requests, I made up for the couple of weekends our daughter was unavailable for contact because she was too unwell by rescheduling contact with him, I arranged bi-weekly video calls for him as he requested to see and speak to our daughter during the weeks he doesn’t have her, I agreed to let him have her Christmas last year even though it fell on my weekend. None of this which is on the court order but I thought I was being very reasonable. The court order does however state we should alternate Christmas, so next yeah she will now be with me but I could have chosen to keep her this year instead knowing that he wanted to have her. I have waited numerous times of up to 4 hours at handovers for him to arrive to not even get an apology. He constantly shows up late with a last minute message to let me know, which is such a nuisance. I tried to discuss child support with him on 2 separate occasions over the past year. His last payment was over a year ago and then because I made an application through CMA last month as I’d not heard back from him, I am now not Co-parenting or “working with him”. Despite all the trauma this man has put me through, I have tried to stay as neutral and amicable as possible when making decisions but I do feel like all of this has done me no favours whatsoever as he just wants more and more and more. Nothing I seem to do is good enough so since December and his more recent actions, I told him I didn’t wish to make any more arrangements with him outside of what’s already been agreed and what’s in the court order and I will be sticking to this. I am weary about the section of the court order that says in future years, parties are to make arrangements for school holidays hence why I attempted to discuss this with him yesterday when he requested it, but we got no where so do not plan on discussing that any further with him either. He then tells me that unless there’s a medical reason or important reason why our daughter can not leave the country with him, he is planning a family vacation despite the court order stating he needs my consent which I have not given. He then proceeded to tell me that he is in line with the court order because he is giving me plenty of notice of his plans to take her abroad. Hopefully, if it goes back to court, they will acknowledge all this. And thankfully, I have kept a document/online diary of everything that’s happened since July last year.

Do I reply to his last email? Do I ask him if he has a passport for our daughter already?

Do I leave not reply and wait for legal advice?

He is meant to be having contact with our daughter today for the weekend so I don't want to do or say anything that may potentially annoy him. I need to tread very carefully.

Tread carefully like you say OP if he is due to have her this weekend. You don’t want to antagonise him so do as you would usually do until she comes home. Once she’s home you can then either let him know that you do not authorise him to take her out of the country or you could seek legal advice first before responding.

In your situation, I would be taking this back to court and asking for supervised contact only.

Don’t ask if he has a passport , just apply today yourself , otherwise you’ll give him ideas. Get a marked put on it to say that she cannot leave the country without mum.

Winifredgoose · 27/01/2022 09:03

No way. He can have a break with her in the UK. Get her a passport and keep it at your parents or a friends house.

Soubriquet · 27/01/2022 09:05

@Soontobe60

Also, it may be a good idea to read up on FGM. Nigeria is considered to be one the highest incidences of FGM in the world - around 1/4 of all cases of FGM take place there. It’s a possibility that he wants to take her there for this precise reason.
As soon as she said Nigeria, flags went up and screamed.

Do not consent your dd to be taken anywhere. He could say “it’s only Spain” and then bugger off to Nigeria and not bring her home.

MadeForThis · 27/01/2022 09:08

I would definitely want to return to court at this stage.

You are bending over backwards to make him happy and he just keeps pushing.

Stick exactly to the court order. If he is 4 hours late then he misses contact. If he can't do a particular day then he misses contact. Don't rearrange. No extra days.

Clearly state that he does not have your permission or the court's permission to take her out of the country.

The court order states that holiday contact will be revisited when she is in school. Refuse to discuss the matter until then.

You are focused on keeping him happy to the detriment of your daughter and possibly her safety.

This man is not your partner. Don't trust him. And stop putting him first.

Lordamighty · 27/01/2022 09:10

You have been too accommodating. Do not let him take her abroad. Legal advice is what you need right now.

Thirtytimesround · 27/01/2022 09:15

He’s still abusing you OP. Now he’s using your child to do it.

Stick to the terms of the Court Order and stop trying to increase contact. This horrible man will bring nothing good into your child’s life. The Court order was made for a reason.

Get legal advice as to how to ensure he doesn’t take her abroad without permission. I doubt he’d bring her back and am shocked you’re considering it. Even if he was a nice dad, which he isn’t, at age one your baby will miss you badly and not understand why you aren’t there. It would be traumatic for her to be separated from her mother for such a long time. That you’re considering it tells me you ar still being controlled by him.

You don’t seem able to stand up to him alone, speak to legal advisor / social worker about how to keep him to the terms of th Court order and end his bullying.

Ponoka7 · 27/01/2022 09:15

I'd worry that he'd get flights to Europe, show the court them, but they are in reality connecting flights. Nigeria is cheaper to fly via Frankfurt. If he gets to Nigeria and wants to keep her, you won't get her back. You can buy your way out of everything there. Men are Kings. It's basically our society 150 years ago. Has he got her a Nigerian passport? Does she have duel citizenship?
That aside, that sudden amount of time away would be traumatising. As said contact your solicitor and get this back to court.