Is this maternal enmeshment or AIBU?

[disco82]

Have noticed lots of odd things in the relationship between my bf and his mother, that I have tried to ignore. But am beginning to question if they are unhealthily enmeshed or AIBU? Examples:

1. He has never moved away from home and is late 30s. Has only now put down an offer on a flat but it is down the road from mum.
2. She has never met me in 18 months, and I have never been allowed in their house. He says it's because she is embarrassed of how run down it is. However, one night when she was away, he took me over and the house was absolutely fine. Also she works with clients in the house. We have bumped into her a few times in the town so she does know I'm a gf.
3. Every time he is with me (and she knows), she texts him asking if he will be home for dinner or will be home that night. He says she is just checking he is ok. But I feel insulted she needs to check this when he is with me?
4. She still cooks meals for him and does his laundry. He can do these things himself as he does it when he is with me.
5. He is expected to pay for all house repairs and look after the house and garden.
6. I live alone but he only spends 2 nights a week at mine and the rest at his mums, even though I have invited him to spend more.
7. He once cut short our time together as he wanted to go home to say goodbye to his mum who was going away for the weekend. He didn't think this was an odd thing to do, but to me it felt like something you do for a partner.
8. I have no family in this country and couldn't go home to my parents for Xmas due to Covid rules. On 2 Xmas-es she said I couldn't spend it with them as she didn't know me well enough and Xmas wasn't the right time to get to know me. The first Xmas I accepted this as we had only been dating 6 months, second Xmas I was quite shocked. So he decided to spend Xmas with me instead, but still had to go over to hers for most of the afternoon, even though she had her other family with her, and I was alone.
9. He runs every decision past her, even ones he doesn't talk to me about.
10. He tells her all the details about what we do together/where we go - they have a ritual of going for a walk every evening together.
11. He admitted to me that she wouldn't be that pleased if he got married/had kids but couldn't explain why.
12. There are no photos of him or his brothers anywhere in the house, and he has no idea where they may be. Not sure it means anything but thought it odd given how close they are.
13. She and his dad got divorced 25 years ago but she has never had a partner since - not sure if it is relevant, but i thought maybe that is why they are so close. He also has 2 other brothers and they too have never left home and are in their 30s, but they are not so close to her, and don't contribute to the household expenses like he does.

Aaaaw OP.

I am sorry this is going to be so sad for each of you.
But you trust your gut, & your ample brains, & do what feels right for YOU.

She sounds worse and worse. I'm sorry, OP.

Do you really have to ask? Sounds like a nightmare run for the hills

I feel so sad for you op but it sounds like it’s getting worse and it’s never really going to change.
The second Christmas you described is appalling leaving you alone even though his mum had his brothers there.
It’s not on you deserve better.

How did your chat go OP?

We were in bed recently, about to get intimate, it was 11pm, and she started messaging him with regular live updates about some lad (stranger) who was getting arrested for weed on their street

The timing of her texts is not accidental. Let me guess, he stopped to answer it didn't he?! Even moving to another country wouldn't solve this.

Yes, he did stop to answer it. He always answers it no matter what he is doing. We have been on date nights and she will start conversations with him (like where are the Xmas lights - even though brothers are home!) and he feels obliged to drop everything to answer. He isn't this conscientious about responding to anyone else. Even when he's home and talking to me on the phone in his room, I will hear her knock and call him for dinner. Even though they rarely eat together as a family. At least he admitted that this pissed him off too. Not pissed off enough to ever say anything to her.

I reminded myself of all this and have ended it. We were both very sad but he understood why I was tired with having no privacy in my relationship from his mum, and how unwelcome I've been made to feel. I couldn't cohabit with him and deal with this stress every day. He agreed he needed to be strong with boundaries and he needs to stop being so dependent on her. And seemed to think him moving out and having physical distance would solve all the problems. I had to point out he's only moving down the road and also it's a problem when he is at mine, away from her, anyway. It's his way of dealing with conflict though, never do anything, just hope time will solve problems magically.

He really wanted to fix things and make it work and I know he's devastated. But I also feel this situation isn't as easy to fix as he thinks. 38 years of ingrained behaviour for both of them. If I was late 20s I wouldn't mind giving it time, but I'm 36 and want kids soon. I can't just wait years for someone to get to a place where they aren't running every decision past their mum. He already thinks she won't be supportive of us moving in (even though he'd do it anyway) and that if we get married, we should elope to avoid any awkwardness. But all this seems so stressful and it's before kids! My own parents are so welcoming of my partners, and even in my marriage I had a great relationship with my exILs. This is just a very alien way of life to me - to not want your son to have his own life.

It sucks so much to end a relationship because of 3rd party interference. I feel so disappointed with him for not listening to me sooner and trying to separate himself.

I know it's the right decision to avoid a long, difficult life together. But it still feels crap. The thought of having to date again also feels exhausting

You’ve done the right thing. My sister has a mother in law like this. It has made her life a misery.

You’ve done the right thing. She’ll always be the third person in the relationship. It’s sad for him also. Maybe it’ll be the kick up the bum he needs.

Take time to give yourself some tic.

Well done OP

Well done OP, you’ve definitely done the right thing! The fact that he’s talking about eloping to make things less awkward speaks volumes. He shouldn’t have to be thinking about these things and he also shouldn’t be pandering to her. You’re right in that she doesn’t want him to have his own life and he’s going to go along with it to appease her. It makes me feel claustrophobic just thinking about it.

@disco82

He agreed he needed to be strong with boundaries and he needs to stop being so dependent on her

But once again, as you've pointed out, he's agreeing but he'd never follow through.

You've made the right decision. Please don't waste any sympathy on him, I'm sure his mum will give him bucketsful. Concentrate on yourself and doing what you need to do to heal yourself and get over the disappointment.

This is so sad OP, a little part of me (& surely a BIG part of you) hoped he could have some kind of catharsis, but real life isn't so neat & timely ... & as you say, time is not on your side re: planning for DC.

But this - OUCH!

and that if we get married, we should elope to avoid any awkwardness

He's still at the emotional equivalent of the development stage "if I hide my eyes & can't see you, you can't see me". Poor sod.
But less about him, & more about you - this is clearly the right decision for you, & that sentence above all shows it.

You can't be managing a guy who's sole coping mechanism is avoidance. No matter how great he is in other ways, this is gonna be a constant. Possibly even once he's outlived his mother: 4 decades of engrained co-dependence doesn't simply disappear when the object is removed ... just like getting married in a removed location won't make MiL's extraordinary attachment disappear.

Lots of self-care for you this weekend OP. So sorry it's had to turn out like this

@milkyaqua

It's like Psycho, with a living mother.

Or does anyone remember that Martin Kemp/Sheila Hancock storyline in EastEnders?

@Riverlee

You’ve done the right thing. She’ll always be the third person in the relationship. It’s sad for him also. Maybe it’ll be the kick up the bum he needs.

Take time to give yourself some tic.

Sadly it's not the MIL who's the third person in the relationship. It is - or was - the OP.

We had another conversation today and I wish I hadn't, it was such a waste of time and left me feeling even worse. Thought he'd seen sense. Instead he told me he thought looking after his mum and a wife and kids was mutually exclusive. When I asked how he'd have enough time for his kids, he thought it was reasonable to assume he took his kids along to paint his mums fence (so he could see them), just like had been done to him as a child. This is a man who works gruelling shifts where we barely see each other. And thinks getting his children to do manual labour so he can be a husband to his mum is a reasonable expectation. And couldn't understand why I was not ok with this. He actually got angry that I said I would absolutely not be sharing 50% of his limited time with a fit and healthy mother who had 2 other sons, and a sister who lived near her. While I was completely alone and working full time. And stormed out.

Bullet dodged.

He will never have a long term relationship.

That has helped me stop mourning the relationship very quickly.

He stormed out that is. Leaving me alone in the pub where we met.

Yup, he's shown his true colours. All that being irritated about her calls and it would all be different when he had his own place was just hot air. Don't look back, think what a lucky escape you've had!

Sounds as if you have done absolutely the right thing, OP. It must be sad for you but better out of it now than in a tangled mess later! I

Some of the things on your list are fairly standard but I agree you will on the left and her on the right, because she will always be. Right. I couldn’t put up with a bearded baby personally.

Thank goodness you stood up to him. I can't imagine any of the boys moving out and cutting the apron strings, they've been well trained!

Seems to be a family thing that his parents were co-dependent on their parents and they think that it's normal. Possibly why his parents marriage failed.

Based on 5 alone, run away. You'll find yoir joint money even when you have kids goes to her to pay for repairs. And you won't get a choice in this.

He is her surrogate husband. The only thing missing is sex. It's gross.

The absolute kicker being his mum is a therapist... god, I was such an idiot to think someone like him didn't know how to manipulate a person as well as his mum clearly does. Thank you MN for helping me out of this absolute shit show.